<greg> This is interesting. Material basically says what I'm saying here. This is what the banner currently does (because we have the nav at the top instead of the bottom): https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T02K87MKW-FNDAQTTAM/download/screen_shot_2019-09-20_at_11.53.41_am.jpg
<Margarida> That's not the same thing
<greg> it's not, but it's similar, and I left several comments pointing out the issues that you have not replied to
<Margarida> The reply is - banners at the bottom are not a UX pattern. Patterns exist and are important to respect because they have been tested thoroughly by UX researchers and are ubiquitous in the web. Besides that, it also means that users don't need to re-learn patterns every time they visit a new website, because most of them respect these patterns.
<greg> Yes, I agree patterns are important. I sometimes use this same line of reasoning to justify UX decisions (i.e. pointing out that it's not how other apps do it). But that alone sometimes is not sufficient reasoning to do something. If there are legitimate issues, and there is potentially a better way of doing something, then improvements on existing patterns can be made. For example, Spotify uses them on Mobile to indicate a private session exists:
<greg> It works really well here:: https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T02K87MKW-FNKPHMUAH/download/image_from_ios.jpg
<Pierre> Like I said in Figma: The position matter because the page is extending at the bottom of the screen. Only native app stop this behavior and only to display actions buttons.
<greg> Pierre, replied on Figma. Re UX pattern, already addressed that above ☝
<Pierre> Well.. if you really insist then :man-tipping-hand:
<greg> I do really insist that we at least see how it looks 🙂
<Margarida> I have added the screens already to Figma
<Margarida> (oops forgot the mobile - adding that one too)
<greg> @Margarida beautiful! I love it!
<Margarida> I really don't
<Margarida> it's a UX crime if I've ever seen one 😂
<greg> Then Spotify and others are committing it too, with great success
<Margarida> If there was a UX jail, I would be there right now 😂
<Margarida> No, spotify is using it in a very different way 😂
<greg> I've given my reasons
<Margarida> I've given my reasons too 😄
<greg> where?
<greg> I've replied to the "UX pattern" reason
<Sandrina> @greg can we have our call/pair programming today at 11am?
<greg> @Sandrina sure! 11am it is 👍
<Margarida> @greg I understand and respect your concerns and your suggestion - I just want to make that clear because looking back on my messages I see how they can sound aggressive. I was really just trying to make a joke and de-escalate the argument (with very little success 😞 ). With that being said, I agree that it works well on Spotify, my concern is, like I said above, we don't really know what components browsers attach at the bottom of the screen, so usually we avoid fixing elements there. And you are right - rules are made to be broken but I am not seeing enough reasons to break the rules in this case. Besides that, closing buttons are usually on the top-right corner of the screen - it's not a very usual behaviour to close something at the bottom. The only place I usually see these banners are those "Do you accept our cookies" banners. However, if you believe so strongly that this change will improve our users experience I am ok with leaving it at the bottom!
<greg> @Margarida no worries at all, I understand that this isn't a clear cut decision and reasonable people therefore can disagree. I am ultimately responsible though for all decisions that get made, whether they are good or bad decisions. I've noticed several potential issues with having the banner at the top, which I've pointed out on Figma and I'll try to summarize here:
- Having the banner at the top can result in jarring UX when everything is suddenly forced to shift downward
- Having the banner at the top can make it difficult for seniors or people with Parkinson's to hit the right "X" to dismiss either a banner or a modal
- Having the banner at the top results in inconsistent UX between Mobile and Desktop experiences
- Having the banner at the top results in more complicated logic in order to insert the banner not-exactly-at-the-top when in Mobile mode
- Having the banner at the top can create a cluttered UI when we are in Mobile mode because of widgets that we place in a navbar at the top
Those are the reasons I've noticed to have it at the bottom instead. There is only one reason to have it at the top that I'm hearing so far:
- Having the banner at the top makes it consistent with apps like Slack, which have chosen to put some banner-like information at the top (but also sometimes they place information at the bottom, but not necessarily in a banner)
I have to weigh the pros & cons and make a final decision on this. So far I'm strongly inclined to have the banner at the bottom because the above pros & cons suggest to me that is what the right decision is. I understand that you disagree. Again, reasonable smart people can disagree. The responsibility rests on me though to make the call. I am of course open to continuing this discussion and see if there are additional reasons to keep it at/near the top and then re-evaluate accordingly.
<greg> Edited to add:
- Having the banner at the top can create a cluttered UI when we are in Mobile mode because of widgets that we place in a navbar at the top
<andrea> No banners, no problems! 🙃
<Sandrina> @greg i’m ready when you are 🙂
<Sandrina> right on point eheh, sure!
<greg> @Sandrina hold on let me restart my computer it's being stupid
<Sandrina> i can’t hear you
<Sandrina> oki
<greg> I can’t wait to switch to a better OS…
<Sandrina> which one do you have?… can’t u update your mac?
<greg> @Pierre When you have a free moment can you have a look at okTurtles/group-income-simple#674 ?
<greg> @Sandrina merged your SVG PR! Also opened issue okTurtles/group-income-simple#676 and assigned to you, if that's something you think you can help us out with!
<Sandrina> @greg okay I can do that without an extra dependency, we don’t use actual sprite at the moment so I think it’s possible based on our current needs ;)
<greg> awesome! 🙌 😄
<Sandrina> Btw, @greg I left two comments on these issues: