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    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    finally adding support for these environment variables and his a snag hprttps://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification/blob/master/specification/sdk-environment-variables.md
    I think OTEL_PROPAGATORS needs to be OTEL_TEXT_MAP_PROPAGATORS?
    other usage in the spec uses "text map" to distinguish from the future "binary" propagator
    Jonatan Ivanov
    @jonatan-ivanov
    I mistakenly posted this into open-telemetry as well, sorry for the cross-post:
    Are there plans to enable GH Discussions on https://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification too as it was enabled for other repos?
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    WRT tracestate (https://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification/blob/master/specification/trace/api.md#tracestate) is it required to provide working implementations in the API or is this just specifying the interface?
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    propagation is suposed to work without the SDK, so I assumed it had to be a working implementation
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    propagation yes, but an implementation with operations?
    propagation can be done by simply carrying the exact string
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    hm, true. it would limit propagation to only between the same formats.. but maybe thats ok
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    yeah i hadn't really thought of other formats. maybe have to do it just for that
    since tracestate is so intrinsic to w3c
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    there are environment variables for configuration of the BSP, but doesn't seem to be any configuration for enabling BSP. is that just expected to be done in language specific configuration? is it expected to always be enabled?
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    what is BSP?
    something something propagator i have to assume
    John Watson
    @jkwatson
    BatchSpanProcessor
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    oh we changed topics
    haha
    ok
    I did not interpret bsp configuration env vars as implicitly enabling the bsp. They just configure a bsp if it happens to be in use (and does not have in-code configuration that conflicts with the var)
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    oh yea, sorry, changed topics :), back to my questions about env variables, hehe
    ok, thats what I figured, just found it then missing to enable it. maybe need an OTEL_SPAN_PROCESSORS
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    Also, nobody replied to @jonatan-ivanov but I would like to point out that github discussions would be very helpful to document the answers to some of these implementation questions. We could use it for implementers and point users towards the appropriate SIG
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    definitely
    John Watson
    @jkwatson
    +100 on using discussions
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    I think i remember in december a quick mention the TC didn't want to because "issues are working for us" but now that i've used discussions in some other repos I definitely think they would add value for SIG contributors. I don't want to pollute the spec issues with implementation questions but I do want them to be somewhere that they can be answered async and easily searched later.
    jimshowalter
    @jimshowalter
    Is this where typos in the specification should be reported? This sentence is garbled; "The API and the SDK are split into multiple packages, based on signal type (e.g. one for api-trace, one for api-metric, one for sdk-trace, one for sdk-metric) is considered an implementation detail as long as the API artifact(s) stay separate from the SDK artifact(s)." Remove the parenthetical, and you get "The API and the SDK are split into multiple packages, based on signal type is considered an implementation detail as long as the API artifact(s) stay separate from the SDK artifact(s)." "based on signal type is considered" is garbled.
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    typos are best reported as PRs :)
    jimshowalter
    @jimshowalter
    What is a "SIG", as in "Language SIGs MAY provide methods other than End in the API that also end the span to support language-specific features like with statements in Python."?
    John Watson
    @jkwatson
    "special interest group"
    jimshowalter
    @jimshowalter
    Thanks!
    Regarding submitting a PR to fix the above typo, I'd do that but don't know what the sentence was trying to say.
    Ted Young
    @tedsuo
    I’ve created a PR to bump the version of the specification to v1.0. I see one or two remaining issues officially marked as required for tracing, but I want this PR to exist to raise awareness: open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification#1372
    @/all :point_up:
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    I'm not finding this defined in the spec. do implementations use the OTEL_LOG_LEVEL to set the regular logger log level for all modules/classes/etc within the SDK
    should it be exposed so that third party libs, like exporters would use the same level
    Daniel Dyla
    @dyladan
    in JS we export a console logger that respects this var if it is constructed without a level specified in code. each component accepts an optional logger in the constructor. For classes like span which are not created directly, they get the logger from the component that created them (in this case the tracer).
    John Watson
    @jkwatson
    In java, we don't support OTEL_LOG_LEVEL because we want to use normal java logging APIs.
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    yea, we are using normal Erlang logging APIs but I was going to have OTEL_LOG_LEVEL just set the log level for the otel SDK modules
    but then realized I wasn't sure if this was the proper interpretation
    if it was I would have expected Java to have it also set the log level for the normal java logging APIs
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    but yea, a user could just use the normal erlang logger api to set the log level on the opentelemetry sdk application
    Evan Anderson
    @evankanderson
    I don't know if announcing PRs is the practice here, but I noticed a missing useful HTTP measurement (server requests in flight) and opened open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification#1378
    Ghost
    @ghost~5e539d53d73408ce4fda8ce6
    Hi, I have a distributed stream processing system, and I would like to identify a suitable technology to track the provenance of the output records. For example, given the id of an output record, I would like to obtain a report which details the ids of all the input records that went into computing the results of the output record. Since the stream processing system has a number of layers, this fine-grained provenance report will be a DAG structure with the root parent as the output record, and the descendants as the input records and all the intermediate records. I'm exploring whether OpenTelemetry can fulfill this requirement. It looks like Trace and Span create such a DAG but its purpose seems different, as the DAG structure seems to be inverted, i.e. the root parent acts as the input (e.g. the external client request) and the descendants act as the outputs (e.g. the processes that are triggered by the external client request). Does OpenTelemetry address this need?
    2 replies
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    anyone else read "reference implementation" as "don't use this in production"? maybe its just me, but when I see that language, like I just saw it is used for the Java SDK it makes me think its not what you should actually use. Like Weston is the "reference implementatin" of Wayland and no one uses it for a daily driver
    2 replies
    Ted Young
    @tedsuo
    @bogdandrutu Following up on version numbers for the spec. You mentioned that if breaking changes to experimental components resulted in rapidly bumping the major version number (which semver would imply) then we would have a failure of some kind. I want to know more details about why this would be an issue. I think the failure of being at v12.0 of the spec by the time metrics was released– and I’m not really sure that it is a failure based on the version alone – would be that we are thrashing in the experimental work. So maybe this relates to what @jsuerth has pointed out – even in experimental work we should start taking care to avoid dribbling out breaking changes. We should take care to avoid breaking changes, and when we do make them, focus on batching the breaking changes. At the same time, figure out how we can be prototyping work on metrics while still offering a somewhat stable experience for beta users. Because otherwise, we will have angry users, regardless of the version of the spec.
    7 replies
    wdengw
    @wdengw
    Hi, I have a java web application that hosted multiple services. I want to follow OpenTelemetry Log Data model to output logs. The Log Data model has semantic attributes for Service, like service.name, service version, etc (https://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification/blob/main/specification/resource/semantic_conventions/README.md#service) . But I don't see any spec for application level resources (app.name, app.version, etc). What is the recommended way to model logs from an application that hosts multiple services?
    John Watson
    @jkwatson
    I'm not super familiar with the log data model, but this is the purpose of the Resource in OTel
    Tigran Najaryan
    @tigrannajaryan
    @wdengw there is no notion of Application in OpenTelemetry. It is not clear how Application is different from the Service. If you believe Application should be a concept recognized by OpenTelemetry then it may be worth making a proposal to add semantic conventions to OpenTelemetry. The logs will just use whatever the OpenTelemetry conventions say, there is nothing special about logs from this perspective.
    2 replies
    wdengw
    @wdengw
    Hi, Does Log data model(https://github.com/open-telemetry/opentelemetry-specification/blob/main/specification/logs/data-model.md) has version control, so that, if the log format has backward in compatible changes in the future, we will publish a new version, or we intended to keep the Log and Event Record Definition always backward compatible?
    2 replies
    Tristan Sloughter
    @tsloughter
    in the spec for process resource attributes it says, "On Windows, can be set to the base name of GetProcessImageFileNameW."