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  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv labeled #9
  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv opened #9
  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv assigned #9
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
great!
Eric Terlien
@EricTerlien_twitter
:D
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
We at Greenpeace are working with WOB procedures to get open data about pesticides sales: http://www.greenpeace.nl/2016/Nieuwsberichten/Landbouw/Schokkende-verkoopcijfers-van-omstreden-gif-glyfosaat-gelekt/
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
Thanks for the tip @ivorbosloper . This type of knowledge we're after.
Boyan Nedkov
@attexx
I am "listening" an just wandering you talk mainly about data and (how to represent it on) maps, I am curious how do you see the place for technology, both software and hardware, or let's say IoT in that contecst?
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
I've seen the farmsubsidy database and I really like the fact that it's an European Open Data set. I'm glad our "gemeentes" and provinces are opening their data, but datasets are so much more usable if they cover a larger area (and least National)
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
@ivorbosloper how is your progress on getting the gebruiksdata out of the ctgb database?
sorry mend 'gebruiksvoorschrift'
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
@attexx its a combination of both. data are the content, after all we want to bring new insights, but new ways to look at them are def also very important
Arjan El Fassed
@arjanelfassed
@ndkv we could put the 2013 list with addresses on data.openstate.eu but it's quit heavy ;-)
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
the ideal is to have data lovers, technology experts and designers team up
@ivorbosloper yes that is one of our frustrations as well
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@arjanelfassed noted in the Follow-ups section. :+1:
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug ok. For reference; you're talking about pestileaks.nl and it's follow-up. I tried to find industry partners willing to share the workload of opening/digitizing the data, but that was hard.
Willy Tadema
@FrieseWoudloper
RVO has a GIAB database containing 'alle bij RVO bekende locaties van relaties die agrarisch actief zijn ...' RVO shares this file with the provinces. @arjanelfassed If I understand you correctly RVO will not share the GIAB database as open data because of privacy concerns?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
@attexx anything you specifically would like to work with?
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug I've been talking for 3 years with CTGB, they're working on it. But they have been working on it for 30+ years and didn't succeed in digitizing this data.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@attexx I'd say IoT is interesting in the context of generating new data, or monitoring existing processes e.g. checking whether certain values are not exceeded.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
@ivorbosloper thanks, I was wondering when you would give up. it is a disastrous organisation
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
haha
Boyan Nedkov
@attexx
@clien_twitter actually I'm trying to find my place here, a could help with developing some devices that could create data and some software tools to proceed that data :-)
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug We've manually scraped 1500+ MS Word documents for data entry. We learned a lot about the domain and have a good data model for real-live-cases. For our use case we have a very good coverage. And to be honest; now is the big question; do we (after all this effort) open up the data for free. It's a bit of a trap.
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
YES!
Arjan El Fassed
@arjanelfassed
@friesewoudloper yes. farms have the names of the farmers. it's the same type of debate as with the companies register. it's wierd that they put this information online and anyone could scrape it and if you ask for the data to re-use it's not allowed.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
maybe @greenpeace is willing to pay a bit to open up your work ?
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug somewhere I really want to open up all the data, but people are telling me it makes no business sense...
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@ivorbosloper That's an interesting quetions.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
@ivorbosloper I really understand you don't
You could do if there would be enough volunteers to do the follow up on the work
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
True
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
I'd be curious to explore that furhter. More specifically: explore how you can benefit (as well) form opening that up.
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
we as openstate understand the frustration of costly opening up data processes. but these important data must be open.
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@ndkv Yep, let's talk about that. You'll be there tomorrow right?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
for the sake of transparency.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
I am curious about ideas of kees kodde about it
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
Yes, me too. And more broadly: what does Greenpeace NL do with data? @keeskodde_GP_twitter
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
The pestileaks use case was: at least 30 companies in NL are digitizing a part of a Word Document based dataset , can we share this effort together?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
super interesting.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@ivorbosloper Virtually: I'll be in the other Gitter channel. :)
What about @AtlasLO_twitter: do you have budgets, means, connections, etc. to assist in this matter in any way?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
@keeskodde_GP_twitter we are talking to colleagues of you in 2 weeks, maybe you can join us?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
One of our aims is to get reliable figures about pesticide use and pesticide sales is one of the building blocks
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
I'm totally oblivious to how the Atlasses are managed and maintained but hey, there are no stupid questions, right?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
yes I will join that meeting, thanx
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
pesticides sales indeed is also very interesting. but I think the data are fix and ready, it only needs legislation.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@keeskodde_GP_twitter Is measuring a viable option? Getting some sensors out in the field and tracking... something? /cc @attexx
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
problem with ctgb data is the other way around
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv

The pestileaks use case was: at least 30 companies in NL are digitizing a part of a Word Document based dataset , can we share this effort together?

But noone wanted to participate?

Atlas Leefomgeving
@AtlasLO_twitter
We might have the means, but we also know that a lot of data-owners are reluctant and a bit scared of opening up their data. Unfortunately this is a problem we run in to as wel.. We understand your frustrations....
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
we have a lot to learn on involving communities in opening up data