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  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv labeled #9
  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv opened #9
  • Aug 10 2016 10:27
    ndkv assigned #9
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
haha
Boyan Nedkov
@attexx
@clien_twitter actually I'm trying to find my place here, a could help with developing some devices that could create data and some software tools to proceed that data :-)
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug We've manually scraped 1500+ MS Word documents for data entry. We learned a lot about the domain and have a good data model for real-live-cases. For our use case we have a very good coverage. And to be honest; now is the big question; do we (after all this effort) open up the data for free. It's a bit of a trap.
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
YES!
Arjan El Fassed
@arjanelfassed
@friesewoudloper yes. farms have the names of the farmers. it's the same type of debate as with the companies register. it's wierd that they put this information online and anyone could scrape it and if you ask for the data to re-use it's not allowed.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
maybe @greenpeace is willing to pay a bit to open up your work ?
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@creepywaterbug somewhere I really want to open up all the data, but people are telling me it makes no business sense...
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@ivorbosloper That's an interesting quetions.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
@ivorbosloper I really understand you don't
You could do if there would be enough volunteers to do the follow up on the work
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
True
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
I'd be curious to explore that furhter. More specifically: explore how you can benefit (as well) form opening that up.
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
we as openstate understand the frustration of costly opening up data processes. but these important data must be open.
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@ndkv Yep, let's talk about that. You'll be there tomorrow right?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
for the sake of transparency.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
I am curious about ideas of kees kodde about it
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
Yes, me too. And more broadly: what does Greenpeace NL do with data? @keeskodde_GP_twitter
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
The pestileaks use case was: at least 30 companies in NL are digitizing a part of a Word Document based dataset , can we share this effort together?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
super interesting.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@ivorbosloper Virtually: I'll be in the other Gitter channel. :)
What about @AtlasLO_twitter: do you have budgets, means, connections, etc. to assist in this matter in any way?
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
@keeskodde_GP_twitter we are talking to colleagues of you in 2 weeks, maybe you can join us?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
One of our aims is to get reliable figures about pesticide use and pesticide sales is one of the building blocks
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
I'm totally oblivious to how the Atlasses are managed and maintained but hey, there are no stupid questions, right?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
yes I will join that meeting, thanx
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
pesticides sales indeed is also very interesting. but I think the data are fix and ready, it only needs legislation.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@keeskodde_GP_twitter Is measuring a viable option? Getting some sensors out in the field and tracking... something? /cc @attexx
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
problem with ctgb data is the other way around
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv

The pestileaks use case was: at least 30 companies in NL are digitizing a part of a Word Document based dataset , can we share this effort together?

But noone wanted to participate?

Atlas Leefomgeving
@AtlasLO_twitter
We might have the means, but we also know that a lot of data-owners are reluctant and a bit scared of opening up their data. Unfortunately this is a problem we run in to as wel.. We understand your frustrations....
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
we have a lot to learn on involving communities in opening up data
Arjan El Fassed
@arjanelfassed
@FrieseWoudloper in the netherlands RVO publishes the complete address but EU only asks for municipality name. http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/cap-funding/beneficiaries/shared/index_en.htm
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
I know that Inspectie Gewas is also scraping Word docs like Ivor is doing.
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
@AtlasLO_twitter Thanks, good to know.
It's amazing (and sad) to hear that everybody is wasting time and resources scraping the same documents over and over.
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@keeskodde_GP_twitter farmers are reluctant to share exact usage/applications of pesticide usage. In my opinion it's not because they're intentionally doing something wrong, but because the regulations around it are so complex, not even the government department defining all these rules is capable to digitize this is an understandable database, although they've planned this for over 30 years.
Corline van Es
@clien_twitter
@AtlasLO_twitter so we need some kind of in between space, where we can open up data you can't
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
I'd say you need to find people who are willing to open and use their data as a leverage.
Just like OS did with open spending.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
@Ivor Have you ever thougt about using waterquality data ?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
I understand the hesitations of farmers, but local governments and waterschappen could be a lot more open about pesticide usage
Atlas Leefomgeving
@AtlasLO_twitter
@clien_twitter That might be part of a solution. A sort of safe haven for data -owners as well
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
I just scraped the waterboards measurements in a userfriendly api for that http://openh2o.nl/ihw/meting
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
Problem with the Waterschappen is the quality of their measuring varies widely
Simeon Nedkov
@ndkv
Why is that?
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
influence of the farmers inside the Waterschappen i am afraid
Bart Spee
@Legolias_twitter
Opening up data is hard work. Even in our own organisation it is hard to convince colleagues to open up their data or even show all they got.
waterbug
@creepywaterbug
at least you can easily find where are problems with pesticieds by using WQ data
kees kodde
@keeskodde_GP_twitter
Bestrijdingsmiddelenatlas.nl also gives info
Ivor
@ivorbosloper
@ndkv people didn't believe we could pull it of. And there's another problem: people don't want to trust a database by volunteers, they want an official database by the government body. But that's probably what people said before wikipedia about enceclopedia. You have to see it to believe it...