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Kyle Altendorf
@altendky
(as opposed to a qt program with some trio being allowed to run)
goodboy
@goodboy
oh actually
heh yeah, because qt loop quits it's exactly why everything breaks
lol because the supervisor is trio inside that loop
riiight
@altendky thx for the tip
Mattia
@nocturn9x
@agronholm well, because I feel like this could be a great experience to learn more design patterns and improve my problem solving skills. As I said, I already use trio in production and I love it, but I just enjoy building software for the sake of improving my skills and because I love programming, that's it
This project is not meant to be a replacement or a "competitor" with trio, but an equivalent solution at best (and hopefully)
Joshua Oreman
@oremanj
@nocturn9x I think there’s a huge amount of value in building something just for the sake of really understanding how it’s built. And there’s a sense in which building one’s own thing is always going to be more fun than figuring out how to extend/improve an existing project. But I think 100 developers all contributing to 1 framework will produce a lot more benefit for the ecosystem than 100 developers making 100 frameworks, and I’m personally not interested in working on something that stands to fragment the Python async ecosystem even more than it already is.
Right now we have 3 Python async frameworks, and one of them (curio) has an explicit goal of not taking over the world or being the-one-you-always-reach-for. That is still too many!
(IMHO)
Because they don’t naturally play nice together, and so when you want to combine code written for one with code written for another in the same program, you need a bridge like trio-asyncio, or a common interface later like anyio, or your own private set of pluggable backends like httpx or hip.
Joshua Oreman
@oremanj
Each new async library that is trying to get people to write code against it adds to the number and complexity of all of those bridges and adapters, so more people interested in async programming on Python spend their time writing bridges and adapters rather than fundamentally new capabilities
richardsheridan
@richardsheridan
Trio guest mode: now hosted on a... Win32 event loop??!?
The shocking part to me is how little code needs to be injected into the mainloop. Any win32 app embedding python could do trio guest mode! (not just weird pywin32 stuff)
Joshua Oreman
@oremanj
@nocturn9x To be clear: I am not in any way trying to discourage you from working on giambio yourself. I really do think building your own $thing is one of the best ways to understand how to build a $thing. I put a lot of time into building an operating system at your age. But I’m glad that I didn’t try to make it an equivalent solution to Linux. :-)
goodboy
@goodboy
yeah gotta say i side with @oremanj
A rosetta stone for Trio guest mode
ahaha
luv it
richardsheridan
@richardsheridan
thx
goodboy
@goodboy
def a handy reference as well
richardsheridan
@richardsheridan
i mean the guest mode documentation is clear enough, but sorting through the warts of each host is pretty annoying
goodboy
@goodboy
:100:
Mattia
@nocturn9x
@oremanj I get your point and I understand that the async ecosystem in Python is already overcrowded
But yeah I was rather hoping to find someone crazy enough to spend some free time maybe learning new things along the way and hopefully produce something that is production ready. And even if it stays a toy, I'd at least love to see it working properly and understand these concepts deeper. The actual reason why I started Giambio was because I needed a "training field" to contribute to trio at some point, because even though trio's source code is indeed readable and well documented, it's still hard to grok for me
matrixbot
@matrixbot

guilledk > <@gitter_oremanj:matrix.org> @nocturn9x To be clear: I am not in any way trying to discourage you from working on giambio yourself. I really do think building your own $thing is one of the best ways to understand how to build a $thing. I put a lot of time into building an operating system at your age. But I’m glad that I didn’t try to make it an equivalent solution to Linux. :-)

Building a kernel, even a simple one is one of the best learning experiences!

guilledk From whatever level of abstraction you live try to go down to the bottom
guilledk at some point you are gonna hit logic gates and at that point you know the magic trick
Kyle Altendorf
@altendky
that's an arbitrary stopping point
matrixbot
@matrixbot
guilledk when you go back up it feels like you are flying
guilledk sure get into physics as well!!
Kyle Altendorf
@altendky
had a little fun designing the silicon for gates in some simulations in school. how far can you push the clock into analog looking responses and still act digitally...
matrixbot
@matrixbot
guilledk damn, would love to work on a machine I know 100%
guilledk even if it runs slow hehe
guilledk looking at the waffer of a modern cpu is insane
Kyle Altendorf
@altendky
talk to google. sounds like they have 100 slots for open source chip designs they'll build for free. :]
matrixbot
@matrixbot
guilledk sounds cool
guilledk on the hobby project to do list for sure
Kyle Altendorf
@altendky
side note, these chat platforms need to offer virtual guests to better support the chat system gateways that are inevitably developed.
Ross Rochford
@RossRochford_twitter
In case anyone is interested, I just refactored my directed-acyclic-graph task scheduler for Trio, so the code is now much easier to understand and debug: https://github.com/rossrochford/trio_graph_scheduler
NoskLo
@nosklo_gitlab
Gotta love trio guest mode
richardsheridan
@richardsheridan
:+1:
Royce Mitchell
@remdragon
on trio guest mode, is it possible to get a handle I can wait on instead of a WM_USER message?
Nathaniel J. Smith
@njsmith
@remdragon sorry, can you expand that?
Royce Mitchell
@remdragon
yeah sure. So I was doing some thinking while stuck in traffic and I wondered if there's a way to "wait" for the condition that GetMessage() wouldn't block. It looks like MsgWaitForMultipleObjectsEx() might allow me to do so. If so, that would be the perfect solution. I could in a single function wait for notification that either 1) there's a win32 event to be processed or 2) there's trio activity to process. Furthermore, WM_USER would be left available for application use.
plus I think it would take fewer lines of code than a WM_USER implementation
Royce Mitchell
@remdragon
create it with handle = kernel32.CreateEventEx ( None, None, 0, 0 ). when you need attention from the loop, trigger it with kernel32.SetEvent ( handle )
Royce Mitchell
@remdragon
looking at trio_guest_win32.py, that someone posted earlier, I think I can see how to modify it for an event
Nathaniel J. Smith
@njsmith
@remdragon I doubt that windows has any way to wait for (messages or objects)