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James A. Bednar
@jbednar
It's always a good time to start! And this would be useful; otherwise it will definitely fall off our radar.
David Saroff
@davidsaroff_gitlab
I'm trying to install holoviz in anaconda on a windows 10. When I execute
conda install -c pyviz holoviz
I get the error
ERROR conda.core.link:_execute(700): An error occurred while installing package 'defaults::rise-5.6.1-py37_1'.
David Saroff
@davidsaroff_gitlab
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
That's annoying. Seems like some issue with the Windows conda package for rise? Users don't actually need rise unless you want to do a live presentation (Jupyter used like PowerPoint), so hopefully there's some configuration you'll be able to install in any case. What happens if you specify a different RISE version, e.g. conda install -c pyviz holoviz rise=5.5?
geoHeil
@geoHeil
May I ask for help getting started with hvplot https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64374829/convert-matplotlib-to-interactive-holoviews-datashader-visualization-ideally when converting an existing matplotlib visualization of timeseries to an interactive data-shadered hvplot. I am stuck assigning the right colors for the individual categories and creating a dynamic filter (preferably with a brush)
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
Hi @geoHeil . Tru
Hi @geoHeil . Try asking for help on Discourse. Please include a minimum, reproducible code example that the community can help you improve. Thanks.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
If you missed it Streamlit Sharing has been released. One click deployment and free hosting of open source, community apps. This is such a competitive advantage for Streamlit. I've seen Plotly tweet that they have had a description for free hosting on Heroku. But this is still too advanced for the many users of analytics apps frameworks. It can be costly for Streamlit to host. But they get data on all the users and use cases of Streamlit. It is such a brilliant move. Great for Streamlit. Great for the Streamlit community. Great for Python. https://www.streamlit.io/sharing.
Does Anaconda or someone else close to the HoloViz ecosystem see something similar as a huge opportunity to provide?
Also try clicking some of the apps to get a feel for the look and feel that Streamlit provides.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
streamlit_app.png
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
At least providing something even simpler based on the Heroku description here https://dash.plotly.com/deployment could be an idea and a huge win I believe.
Andrew
@IAteAnDrew1_twitter
that's really cool with streamlit
https://panel.holoviz.org/user_guide/Server_Deployment.html I think panel already does show how to deploy on Heroku here
Kim Pevey
@kcpevey

Anyone else have issues with bokeh after creating a fresh env (as of yesterday)? I'm getting

(unknown) [bokeh] JS/Python version mismatch
(unknown) [bokeh] Library versions: JS (2.2.1) / Python (2.2.3)

Apologies if this is the wrong place, but the Bokeh gitter doesn't seem to be a thing anymore.

I don't know where/what needs to be updated to update the JS library
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
Maybe quit your browser and reload? Not sure.
@MarcSkovMadsen , hosting public apps in that way has been discussed as a possibility by Anaconda for the entire time I've been working there, but nothing concrete has happened on that front.
I agree (and have argued internally) that it would be a great idea.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
Sounds great @jbednar . I think now you have more arguments: 1) Streamlit does it with huge success 2) HoloViz including Panel is NOW so mature that there are lots of business opportunities for Anaconda in promoting it.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
How do you know it's a success (financially) for streamlit?
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
I don't :-) But I can see community wise and communication wise that it is.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
That part has never been in doubt. :-)
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
My understanding is that solving the deployment problem is the hard problem. And Streamlit seems to have solved it. I claim people will use their technology and stay with it just for that reason alone.
The thing I don't understand is why Heroku, AWS, Azure, Google Cloud and other cloud providers don't provide the same simple 3 step technical solution.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
I don't disagree. But note that Anaconda makes no money on Panel, and so we don't directly benefit if people use Panel more, while we would pay costs directly every time people deploy on such a server.
Streamlit is anticipating a revenue stream, whereas Anaconda is not expecting any money to flow from Panel.
The real question is whether Streamlit's revenue model will support their deployment server fully, in the long run. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion there.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
And that that is the challenge for Panel. That enterprises would look at that model and say 1) Where can I get support now if I need it 2) Will this be developed and supported in the future.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
Meanwhile, enjoy the free resources! :-)
Anaconda can definitely provide support for Panel, with an hourly rate for work done.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
But for now. They get a lot of marketing, a lot of apps to test, free registration of all users and code. They can use that data to improve their offerings and technology fast.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
Yup.
I assume that the VCs who invested in them believe in their revenue model. Panel is not VC funded.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
Maybe just that statement that for support you can go to Anaconda should be stated more clearly on the different sites then? And maybe list other expert consultants as well.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
Yes, that's probably a good idea. We're hesitant to make it sound like these tools have a "gotcha", in that only paid supporters will get access to the key info (which is not true), but I agree that reassuring corporate users who want a support option is worth doing.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
The thing I am in doubt about is the revenue model. Because the Enterprises I know about prefers being in control. And they have the resources to configure CI/ CD and run Streamlit, Voila, Panel, Dash etc. in their own environments. Why buy that service when it's so easy for DevOps to do themselves?
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
I wouldn't say it's easy, but I do agree that it's hard for them to relinquish control.
And that they are doing it already in many cases, anyway.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
Streamlit or Panel is not there in isolation. Therefore having it hosted somewhere else does not make a lot of sense to me at least.
But getting a brand and connections to a huge community of data scientists with 0-2 years of experience can be very valuable I think. Those data scientist will be the decision takers tomorrow.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
image.png
Why does images now upload as image links instead of an image I can view directly?
Data App Frameworks are getting a place. Thats what I would say. I think Panel deserves to be there. But I doubt it will ever get there. Not because of the technology but because of the support behind it.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
I assure you, all these things are discussed extensively within Anaconda, but so far the HoloViz tools have been primarily developed as ways that our customers can achieve great things, as funded directly by those customers, without necessarily requiring alignment between HoloViz's future and Anaconda's commercial activities. If such alignment does occur, I can easily imagine launching a similar service, and as mentioned doing so has been regularly proposed and considered for many years. So far it hasn't lined up with the roadmap of our commercial activities, but that's not to say it won't next month or next year. That said, other tools may already have deep inroads into mindshare at that point, which is a risk we all take.
Marc Skov Madsen
@MarcSkovMadsen
Regarding the "Gotcha". Maybe stating clearly that you believe these tools should be truly free but you also acknowledge the need for support and its available there and there would be a good thing.
James A. Bednar
@jbednar
Basically, we've been successful and expect to continue to be successful at obtaining funds for software development. There are no funds for marketing or for hosting large-scale public services, which is a consequence of having no direct-from-consumer revenue stream.
Yes, putting a statement like that on our sites, on balance, probably will be a good idea. I'll try to draft something.