These are chat archives for reactioncommerce/reaction

6th
Dec 2014
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 01:37
@evliu re: the comment you just made on meteor/meteor... I've wondered about this myself, and have contemplated pulling all the styling out up into reaction, out of core. However.. the downside is that anyone who installs core without reaction would get a bunch of non-styled crap.. thoughts?
I've also thought, maybe just copy the less,etc from any reaction package, up into the top level, and not actually compile them at the package level
any file with extension "import.less" is ignored by meteor's less compiler, so I could just move all of them to assets (and have a configuration files,extract routine, similar to nemo64's)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:14
hmm, well, i’d keep the base styling i think. i’m guessing meteor was not actually created to be as modular as reaction is, but for me, the last company i was at was a j2ee shop that did everything right, which is why i’m so stringent on source formatting and design patterns. they modularized everything in a very logical manner, and even with 10 million lines of code, it was really easy to navigate
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:16
well, I've got a solution that I'm pretty happy with now. I've created a reaction-core-theme package that now has all the less files in it, and created customizable less files in the app /client/themes director
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:16
meteor on the other hand is created to be a framework on it’s own, and they didn’t expect people to build a framework on top of a framework, which is what reaction is, but it’s pretty genius to do it that way because it becomes super modular. as far as styling goes, that’s a little more tightly-coupled because of the architecture.
that’s cool, are you able to api.imply any of those styles?
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:16
they are included as assets, and reaction-core generates the .less files using the build tools, similar to nemo-64 (mostly borrowed his code)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:17
to make the look and feel super customizable just requires really good documenting on how to theme rather than “look at the source code and study it"
the main thing is if people want a framework that’s really customizable or just a boilerplate where they can change colors and content
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:18
I've been documenting it as I go, but I'm pleased with this, because it will allow you to pull out bootstrap - or even less - and also to create pretty powerful theme packages
it's going to be a slightly harder development process if you are working in core
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:18
for instance, a lot of shops will look like shopify and woocommerce, but then you have really custom shops like zara.com which is pretty awesome, with only some bugs and things i don’t like (i only mention it cuz i bought a suit for my engagement shoot during black friday)
i haven’t seen your updates yet but i’ll check it out on monday
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:19
but the typical developer will just be able to modify directly in client/themes in the app and never worry about the actual theme
cool, thanks appreciate the feedback
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:20
yea, so it depends on your target audience; people who want something like woocommerce or something that is dev-friendly
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:20
I think this will work for both
it's a damn lot of work to just get themes/less/bootstrap working properly though, lol
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:20
my first job was at liferay.com (enterprise portal) as a software consultant with no software background (how the heck did that happen?). i learned sooo much about the right way to do things there and went on my first consulting gig two months into it, haha
but i would agree with you, i think reaction really caters to both
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:22
I'll have this committed pretty soon, I'm pretty excited after banging my head (not on the schedule) for a week ;-)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:23
but me and the other lead dev chose reaction because it showed a ton of promise. i was searching for a framework using the MEAN stack, but none of them were as developed. he was very hesitant because meteor was very unstable at that time, and the updates broke previous meteor stuff
now i’m pretty happy with having made the decision with reaction and helping work on it
hopefully reaction will give sway to the future of meteor and making styling packages easier to create and use
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:24
that's really awesome to hear! appreciate it, and will help you guys get wherever you need to go with this. I expect to make a lot of progress in the upcoming weeks as well
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:25
it definitely is really weird they have NPM.require but no system for bower, which i understand is because of mrt, and meteor packages, but it’s just not mature enough to hold it’s own weight, and it requires a whole new set of maintainers
i’m hoping to build up my skillset a ton with meteor and reaction, i’m definitely learning a ton from your code
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:25
hopefully only the good stuff
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:25
i spend a lot of my outside time coding too, haha
i’ve worked with soo much outside code, and especially foreign-country code that i’m super strict on source formatting and good design patterns; i can’t stand bad coding, haha
oh, one thing we were talking about is the ability to store assets outside of mongo and mongo-based FS
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:27
ah.. I just solved the last issue. gotta work on the docs, and a few more test, but this is looking pretty awesome..
re: outside storage
collectionFS is the package we're using for images,etc
it has S3, and some other file systems packages
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:27
is it a lot faster than using the native FS?
my coworker was just wondering why not use native FS
i told him you have a ton more experience than i do so i don’t know why, but i’m sure it’s not a random decision
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:28
well, mainly because our plan is reaction should stay ephemeral -> no local storage
we're using mongo's gridFS now
but could easily use S3,etc..
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:29
got it
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:29
but if you store locally, you have to share, backup,etc if you want to be on more than one server
and I can tell you - that was a HUGE pain in the ass with magento
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:29
that makes sense, especially if you shard and cluster
and i guess since it’s mongo, it works a lot better. early versions of liferay stored assets in mysql, and they moved away from that into local fs
i hope to never go back into the javaEE realm, haha, it’s sooo bloated and heavy, and scales vertically, which is crazy expensive, can’t just add another box like node/mongo
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:31
my first ecommerce platform I wrote - we stored in mysql - and everyone was like "you're crazy!!" lol - I wrote a package to do the same thing with Magento, the local filesystem really is not that great a solution
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:32
the issue for liferay was that it was way too slow when you have 100,000 users logged in
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:32
but considering we want to be able to launch shops, and tear them down in seconds, and scale,etc.. local storage won't work
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:32
yea, that totally makes sense
especially if you use a mogno SaaS
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:32
that's also part of the reason we're doing it this way - docker is fast enough that in theory you could launch new shop instances almost as fast new users arrive
it really takes under a second to launch a shop on our backend right now
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:33
yea, portability is pretty great. i still have to learn to make my own Dockerfiles to include our packages
i just hate doing DevOps configs and stuff like that, haha, i just want to code!
that was the nice thing about developing for iOS
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:35
yeah, I enjoy devops, but I've been stuck on that stuff for like 2 months, and it was starting to get really annoying. (that's why I said to expect a bunch of stuff on reaction soon)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:36
yea, but launchdock looks pretty awesome; i just have to figure it all out with setting up servers and VSPs and such
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:37
we're actually running a old version, because there is one more issue (remote redis connections) that I need to solve -> and just couldn't stand staying away from reaction any longer
but Docker just announced a bunch of new tools that's really going to make it awesome
(docker machine, docker swarm,etc)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:38
does everyone on your team just do everything? like both reaction and launchdock and what not?
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:39
well, coding - it's 90% me (plus important contributions from Eric (aldeed)) (Eric are you listening... we need you full time!)
Ben cleans up after me a lot though ;-)
so needless to say, I'm very excited to be getting some community contributors
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:41
ahh, haha, i c. don’t mind as i gleen from your guys’ expertise. you have 10x the experience i do :P i just base that on the blurb that says “over 20 years of experience"
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:42
yeah, that sounds good, but I start fresh every 2 years (tech wise, don't call me old!)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:44
lol, well, it’s good to have all the wisdom
i think you are a recognized name within the meteor world too, which is pretty cool
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:47
it's great to be at the beginning with a really cool community.. by far my favorite platform ever
the things I could have done with this in 2001 lol
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:47
haha, billionaire!!
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:48
right after I sold all the great domain names I bought up, I would have been coding with meteor
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:49
lol
one thing i’m looking forward to when i start doing some iOS again is the “it just works” SDK and framework Apple gives me :P that’s one thing i wish meteor had, lol
but i know that costs a ton, because you hire the best devs in the world to create that kind of experience
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:51
that's called meteor add-platform ios meteor run ios
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:52
haha, but i’m talkin about the Apple SDKs, and i always disliked scripting languages, but Swift changed my mind a little, so javascript became less ugly to me :P mainly cuz most of the js i saw was all spaghetti
i don’t know how you do so much; between coding, docker, investor meetings/pitches, life
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:53
well one of those has to go... (life)
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:56
lol
anyways, i’m gonna get ready for bed. long day tomorrow. night, man, get a beer or something, haha
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:58
k, talk to you later.. new code on the way
Everest Liu
@evliu
Dec 06 2014 05:58
sweet, i’ll take a look on monday. my concentration will be working on a wedding website this weekend. it’s so much harder when you haven’t done it before, haha
Aaron Judd
@aaronjudd
Dec 06 2014 05:59
:thumbsup: