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    Cong Ye
    @siriusye

    No one can say for sure, until regulations are passed. If crypto is to be taken seriously, and spread, there will have to be regulations.

    That is true. However, regulations are very country dependent, some countries will never allow crypto exchanges, some countries may allow it very soon. So what is you guys plan for the token economics?

    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    For most of speculation tokens, their token economics are speculating. So they spend all of their resources to listing and advertising their tokens. This is not good, we all agree. So, you guys claim that you guys don't want to go to that way. But, what is your way? There should be a valid token economics system at least in planning?
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    I don't want to be offensive. I didn't lose money in this project. However, one of my friends lost $300,000 in this project. She was a limited partnership of one of the crypto funding who put lots of eth in this project. I just want to figure out what is going on here.
    Gregg Irwin
    @greggirwin
    Yes, tokenomics is still a goal, and I will take the heat for delays on that.
    If people invested for the tech, and held tokens in support of that, they haven't lost anything. Only those in a hurry for profit, who sold during all the volatility of the past year, have lost. Of course we feel for them, but that's all out of our control.
    BeardPower
    @BeardPower

    @siriusye Let me rephrase it. It's illega to take such ridiculous high feest to list an asset. Just look into the listing fees of stock exchanges and others. The fees are regulated! Example: Binance and other exchanges asked for millions to list an asset. A stock exchange's listing fee is about 300 EUR. They just charge for the paperwork and work need to get the asset listed.

    Did your friend sell the tokens? If not she did not have a loss as she still has the tokens. There will only be a win or loss if that trade/exchange is settled.

    If youn want to see the listing fees of regulated exchanges just look at their regulatories.
    Confirmed source: look at the website of the SEC and other regulatory entities. They already closed some of the unregulated exchanges and some of their owners faced jailtime.
    It's not an assumption but hard facts.

    TL;DR:

    Today, the SEC made its biggest announcement yet: all the crypto exchanges are illegal unless they register with the SEC.

    It's more than confirmed.
    It's already happening.
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    So the problem is money. However, this shouldn't be a big problem. The ICO raised 28137 ETH. Given there were sales expense etc., I don't know how much you've got on hand. I assume 60% of eth can go to the project. Back to the that time, eth was worth about $900. So 60% percent of 28137 worth about $15 million. I know Binance or Bitfinex normally asks a prices between 1 million and 5 million. After spend money on one of the top exchanges, the team should still have sufficient money for several years of developing.
    If the token price is boosted, the team also can benefit from it. The foundation and team still holds 100 million red tokens. If the price is $1, then there is $100 million. A few million for 100 million is a good deal.
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    I guess the real case is the team didn‘t cash out at a good price, but cashed out when eth price was heavily dumped. So team only have several millions on hand. This money is needed for maintaining the developing team for a few years. So there is no money for exchanges. Even the red language and c3 dsl is finished, there still will be no resource for the token price.
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    Everyone should live with their decision. Ironically, the lady I mentioned before lost huge amount of money in this project now works as a partner of a crypto exchange.
    BeardPower
    @BeardPower

    @siriusye
    Spending money on those horrific and illegal fees is like burning it. Money needs to be taken to good use, which is development. Neither Binance nor Bitfinex is top exchanges. >85% of the exchanges' volume is fake volume. They are neither regulated, performant, or feature-rich. It also makes no sense in splitting liquidity if an already illiquid asset.
    The token price will be boosted if the utility token is used in services and products. The current price is only formed by hype, FOMO, greed, and criminal activities by certain market participants.

    Again, listed on a regulated exchanged is free! Resources for the token price? It's a utility token and price is formed by its usage.

    She would only have lost money if she sold the token. No money would have been lost until a trade is settled. The golden rule of investing: only invest money you can afford to lose.

    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214
    @siriusye this room is for technical discussions only, so you should move your inquiries to Telegram channel.
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    Ok, np. Besides of that, is there blockchain side people in this project i can talk to. I think most of the people here are programmers?
    BeardPower
    @BeardPower
    @siriusye Please specify what you mean by "blockchain side" people. Yes, most people in here are programmers which are the "blockchain side" people.
    Cong Ye
    @siriusye
    Normally for a blockchain project there should be someone response for the operation
    BeardPower
    @BeardPower
    @siriusye There is. Please use the TG group for that.
    Gregg Irwin
    @greggirwin
    @siriusye be aware that there is at least one fake Red Official Group on Telegram. https://t.me/redofficial is the real one.
    31880994zz
    @31880994zz
    There are different opinions on token prices. I would like to ask you what is the relationship between your red project and the block chain. So far, I haven't found any relationship. So the ICO you made last year should not be based on ETH.
    C3 has seriously deviated from its development plan so far.
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214

    I would like to ask you what is the relationship between your red project and the block chain.

    "Blockchain" is such a generic (and misused) term that it's impossible to figure what "relationships" you're talking about. Clearly, project's goals, related to blockchain, are described in the whitepaper.

    So the ICO you made last year should not be based on ETH.

    So, usage of crypto-assets is prohibited unless it's somehow "related to blockchain"? I have trouble following this leap of logic.

    C3 has seriously deviated from its development plan so far.

    Which is more than expected with experimental software and murky, constantly shifting landscape, such as Ethereum ecosystem.

    And again, unless you have technical questions, move your inquires to Telegram channel.

    Petr Krenzelok
    @pekr

    We use PRTG monitoring at work, and I have found their article about the upcoming Facebook's Libra cryptocurrency. They don't seem to be all-positive about it. On an interesting side, they are introducing a statically typed language, called Move. The code looks kind of readable, but far from the DSL cleanness. Would it be worth to support Libry by C3? Or better - is that even technically possible, if it does not follow some cryptocurrency principles?

    https://blog.paessler.com/the-unbearable-lightness-of-bitcoin

    Gregg Irwin
    @greggirwin

    First, let me opine (state an opinion). The whitepaper says:

    The Libra mission is to enable a simple global currency and financial infrastructure that empowers
    billions of people

    I believe that is disingenuous. Maybe the development team believes that, but if that was FB's mission for Libra, while FB's own mission, by law, is profit, they would have gone about it a different way. They want to empower people the same way FB wants to connect people.

    That said, they want to ride the blockchain wave as well, and we've learned a lot from our time there. Like, having cryptographers design computing systems doesn't make for foolproof systems. It can make for an incredibly secure infrastructure that people can't use safely. Like having a bank vault door on your house, but you can easily lock yourself out, or accidentally leave it unlocked and not know it.

    Let's look at a couple move samples:

    public deposit(payee: address, to_deposit: Coin) {
    let to_deposit_value: u64 = Unpack<Coin>(move(to_deposit));
    let coin_ref: &mut Coin = BorrowGlobal<Coin>(move(payee));
    let coin_value_ref: &mut u64 = &mut move(coin_ref).value;
    let coin_value: u64 = *move(coin_value_ref);
    *move(coin_value_ref) = move(coin_value) + move(to_deposit_value);
    }
    
    public withdraw_from_sender(amount: u64): Coin {
    let transaction_sender_address: address = GetTxnSenderAddress();
    let coin_ref: &mut Coin = BorrowGlobal<Coin>(move(transaction_sender_address));
    let coin_value_ref: &mut u64 = &mut move(coin_ref).value;
    let coin_value: u64 = *move(coin_value_ref);
    RejectUnless(copy(coin_value) >= copy(amount));
    *move(coin_value_ref) = move(coin_value) - copy(amount);
    let new_coin: Coin = Pack<Coin>(move(amount));
    return move(new_coin);
    }

    If you want to avoid mistakes, that doesn't look like a language to help you do it.

    Gregg Irwin
    @greggirwin

    But the name "Move" sparked a thought. It's just that, with no analysis. If what you want is the ability to move assets from one place to another, shouldn't that all be built in? You may have conditions to check, but if you just had one move method, with a source, destination, and amount, it either works (atomically) or fails for some reason that it gives you (e.g. source account doesn't have enough funds).

    In a world of separate systems, sure, you need deposit and withdraw, with some conversions possibly taking place as well. But within a single system, where there are X assets of a single type, that can only move from place to place, never being created or destroyed, you only need move. Build that into the system and avoid the gobbledygook above, that will be done wrong by many people.

    Can we support Libra? Yes. It's just a VM and bytecode. Should we? Not just yet.

    FLuX LoOP
    @x8x
    State of Blockchains Q2 2019: Blockchain Founders Raise over $822 million by Q2
    https://outlierventures.io/research/state-of-blockchains-q2-2019-blockchain-founders-raise-over-822-million-by-q2/
    dsgeyser
    @dsgeyser
    If I remember correctly, it was mentioned at the last RedCon that functional languages aren't a good fit when building cryptocurrency related technologies. Care to state why this is so? Thanks.
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214
    @dsgeyser care to cite the source?
    Gregg Irwin
    @greggirwin
    @dsgeyser it's a broad brush, but you have to eliminate or severely limit recursion (at least on the EVM), and the blockchain is all about state.
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214
    To elaborate: account-based blockchains (e.g. Ethereum and recently Libra) are all about state. Functional programming is well suited for UTXO model (e.g. Bitcoin). @dsgeyser if you meant usage of functional paradigm for smart-contract languages, then I can elaborate a bit further and dust over my initial R&D on C3 design.
    dsgeyser
    @dsgeyser
    @greggirwin If I am not mistaken, I heard you mentioning state and recursion as being reasons for functional languages not being suitable for
    a smarr contract platform.
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214
    @/all coming from the main chat room: RED Wallet 0.4.0 is out.
    dsgeyser
    @dsgeyser
    @9214 I had Cardano in mind with Haskell. Please do some dusting... I am in the dark atm.
    dsgeyser
    @dsgeyser
    @greggirwin I meant sometime in the past.
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214

    "Smart-contract" itself is a very misleading term: in SCL (smart-contract language) research, it means any kind of automation of legal contracts and agreements between multiple parties, so, most papers that I've found concentrate only on this aspect.

    I had Cardano in mind with Haskell

    One of the seminal work in this area is, in fact, a Haskell parser combinator library (a DSL, basically) from Peyton-Jones, who IIRC worked on GHCi compiler and later established a fintech company that used this DSL. Most of home-brewed / academic SCL implementations are inspired by this work, like e.g. Findel or Simplicity. Findel's author also maintains a curated list of SCL resources, which you should check out.

    Yoichi Hirai (one of the Ethereum researchers) has this repo, but it seems to be abandoned. Bamboo is interesting though.
    dsgeyser
    @dsgeyser
    @9214 Thanks. It seems to me that Cardano is going nowhere slowly. I am interested in the contrast between using Haskell and Red on a platform. Red is familiar to me.
    Zelos
    @Zelos39482837_twitter
    hi I have a question
    I know the blockchain structure and I want to build an app using blockchain but I didn't understand how blockchain handle p2p connection
    I need help with p2p
    Vladimir Vasilyev
    @9214
    @Zelos39482837_twitter that's not the right place to ask these kind questions, consider to join Ethereum community channels. Resources linked in this room's description are a good starting point though.