red/help

For help with your code, suggestions and ideas, and learning Red.

nedzadarek

@nedzadarek

@GiuseppeChillemi don't probe it - main context is huge to print

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

@rebolek , yes there is a result.

Also I expected a result from:

z: make object! [b: 0 c: 1 d: 2]
probe context? z/1

But I get an error

*** Script Error: cannot access 1 in path z/1
*** Where: context?
*** Stack: probe 
>>

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

z is object, there's no z/1

this has nothing to do with context?

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

@gltewalt

If you’re wondering how to get the name that a value is set to... values are anonymous.

This is now clear to me.

@rebolek I expected z/1 returning the first word in the object and returning the object Z itself as result of context?

nedzadarek

@nedzadarek

@GiuseppeChillemi I guess you have used the Rebol to have such expectations:

z: object [a: 1 b: 2]
first z
; == [self a b]
second z
;== [make object! [
;        a: 1
;        b: 2
;    ] 1 2]

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

@nedzadarek certainly not, first z does return words-of, not first word.

@GiuseppeChillemi Ah, you wanted this:

>> z: make object! [b: 0 c: 1 d: 2]
== make object! [
    b: 0
    c: 1
    d: 2
]
>> w: words-of z
== [b c d]
>> w/1
== b
>> context? w/1
== make object! [
    b: 0
    c: 1
    d: 2
]

nedzadarek

@nedzadarek

@rebolek

@nedzadarek certainly not, first z does return words-of, not first word.

I mean that only the Rebol allows you to use integer indexes (well, first and second) to retrieve words & values respectively. The Red is more descriptive (-of functions).

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

@nedzadarek right, it does, however @GiuseppeChillemi writes: I expected z/1 returning the first word in the object..., so this has nothing to do with first and second (and third also, IIRC) functionality in Rebol.

nedzadarek

@nedzadarek

@rebolek Maybe he saw obj: make object! [...] ... second obj. So, he thought "I can use integer indexes on objects".

After some time he tried it on the Red (not remembering exact details), expecting above.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

Yes, when I see a block I think automatically I can get its elements via integers

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

And you of course can. However, object is not a block.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

I always think that there is an uniform access method in RED or REBOL so I apply the knoledge of blocks in object as when I probe them they actually seem an block with a "make object!" just before.

It's common to abstract a rule and apply it on similar things.

But REDBOL has many so many changes that this method can't be always applied.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

There's no literal form of object which may be confusing for some people. But have a look at map!, it has its literal form - #( ... ), so you can't confuse it with block, can you? And objects are more like maps in this regards.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

However I think that having uniform access methods make easier to handle the language.

I don't know what you mean for "literal form" but I can imagine

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

There is uniform access method in form of path: x/y/z, but that does not mean that you can use integers everywhere, only where appropriate.

Max

@moliad

objects have little to do with blocks. objects are not series.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

Literal form is datatype specific syntax.

Map has one, object doesn't.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

Yes @moliad but first/second/third or obj/1 ../2 /3 is a method you could apply to object content. In fact in rebol you could use it on the third element of an object. (i.e.: probe first third obj)

Vladimir Vasilyev

@9214

@GiuseppeChillemi because third obj in Rebol is equivalent to body-of obj in Red.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

So, having

z: make object! [b: 0 c: 1 d: 2]

a first z returning b could be a valid access method.

@9214 Yes, now I have understood

In RED a more explicit and verbose method is used

Max

@moliad

@GiuseppeChillemi in fact /1 /2 /3 doesn't work in Rebol :smirk:

>> a: context [a: 8]
>> a/1
** Script Error: Invalid path value: 1
** Near: a/1

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

Just had to learn the proper way to get object contend

@moliad

Yes, we have another way

>> z: make object! [b: 0 c: 1 d: 2]
>> probe pick third z 1
b:
== b:

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

words-of, values-of, body-of and of course object/key

Max

@moliad

@GiuseppeChillemi I know, but just clarifying

Vladimir Vasilyev

@9214

@rebolek and select.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

@9214 right. And in and other esoteric stuff ;)

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

@moliad I know you know but was me which didn't know.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

>> a: context [b: 2 c: 5]
== make object! [
    b: 2
    c: 5
]
>> get in a 'b
== 2
>> do bind [b] a
== 2
>> a/b
== 2
>> select a 'b
== 2
>> do reduce [first words-of a]
== 2

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

So, lets return on my first struggle

y: [b c d]
probe context? y/1

I supposed context? y/1 returned an empty context but instead it is the global one.

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

it can't return empty context, word cannot be member of empty context

Max

@moliad

@GiuseppeChillemi yes, cause you created the [b c d] block on the console, so the created words where global at that moment

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

So, which is there rule here: words on a block have the global context when not created inside a function/object ?

Max

@moliad

short answer yes

long answer, it depends.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

Noooo, I can't live with "depends" !

Max

@moliad

it will use the "current" context. which is the global one by default (at root of app, on the console, etc.)

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