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Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
@x8x basically it is all of the branches of the red/red repository that have new commits - you have shown thenegative-zero and the GTK branch last week, but this week there is activity in refactor-lexer and it does not show up. The links are like https://github.com/red/red/tree/refactor-lexer and similar for all branches.
FLuX
@x8x
@meijeru Thank you! I'll have a look and let you know.
FLuX
@x8x
@meijeru Should be fine now, please let me know if you spot issues again!
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
@x8x :+1:
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
I have just published a small program to check if you have the latest Red version. It is in my Gist
I have a suggestion: incorporate this in the current GUI console as a second option in the Help menu (after About).
Maciej Łoziński
@loziniak
User would probably never see "you are up-to-date" message with current speed of generating commits by the team! :-)
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
BTW in the red/gui-branch room I show how I added this facility myself to the console, by modifying the menu and the on-menu actor.
lucindamichele
@lucindamichele
I have just published a small program to check if you have the latest Red version. It is in my Gist
Very cool @meijeru !
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
@packetrhino thanks!
dirtbagger
@dirtbagger
Thanks to @GiuseppeChillemi and @9214 for the responses to my question about ports. On a more general question, does anyone have advice to offer on converting Rebol code to Red? My perhaps rather naive approach would be to just try running the Rebol code from the Red console and see what doesn't work. If there's a more efficient or systematic approach to use I'd be pleased to learn of it.
Vladimir Vasilyev
@9214
@dirtbagger Rebol2 and Red are highly compatible, I suggest to gradually copypaste Rebol bits, bottom-up, and check if they work as expected. In case something breaks - the best way to figure out what went wrong is to ask for help in our chat room.
Dave Andersen
@dander
@dirtbagger It would probably be helpful to look over this reference for differences before you start. And would be very helpful if you record any new things you find there as well!
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
Thanks @dander, yes, more info is always good.
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin

@JacobGood1, thanks for those links. We have various elements of debugging to address: language (errors), instrumentation/tracing (runtime), and environment (tooling). @maximvl did some CL-like experiments, which were pretty cool, showing how Red can be adapted at the user level for some things. Tooling is probably the easiest thing to address, because we can build them as needs arise, and use the future plugin system in the console and full IDEs. e.g. a 5-minute object inspector:

debug-obj: function ['obj [word!] "Ref to object"][
    o: get obj
    spec: copy [across]
    repend spec ['h3 rejoin ["Editing: " obj] 'return]
    foreach word words-of o [
        repend spec [
            'text form word
            to set-word! rejoin ['f- word] 'field 'data o/:word compose [
                (to set-path! reduce [obj word]) face/data
                probe o
            ]
            'return
        ]
    ]
    probe spec
    view spec
]
o: object [x: y: 0]
debug-obj o
o2: object [x: y: z: 1]
debug-obj o2

Instrumentation is an interesting area I'm keen on (think DTrace), and Red's dynamism is great and terrible for some of these issues. e.g., it's not just a compiler optimization switch we can flip. We also constantly push and pull, on the design side, about what needs to be in R/S for performance, and what can be built at the user/mezz level. Also figuring out what hooks are necessary in order to facilitate probing and AOC type features, without going full MOP on people. I'm not saying MOP is bad, not at all, just that it's not part of Red's design today.

It all raises questions about debugging in general, and that one size does not fit all. Sometimes you're debugging a function, working in the REPL, sometimes an application, other times a complete system.

JacobGood1
@JacobGood1
You should always be working in a repl =P
luce80
@luce80
@JacobGood1 So much true...I hope to see an editor that let's you debug a selection of code and/or that let's you isolate all but a new function (or even a line) you are creating, and let's you debug only that. Or does it exist already?
P.S. have you seen this ;) ?
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
@greggirwin debug-obj is a nice quickie, but when I called it with an expression evaluating to an object, rather than with a word referring to an object (which admittedly I should not have done), it showed a confusing error message. I will report on this in red/bugs.
Jose Luis
@planetsizecpu
Why not a switch? I used a very effective debugger for many years, you selected the point where you wanted to start
debugging with the debug-on keyword and the point where you should end the debugger withdebug-off.
Then you compiled the program in debug mode, so when it was executed it worked normally, and, when program arrived at
the debug point, a window opened where you could see the source code and the debuger awaited confirmation to execute
each instruction, step by step, also check the status of the variables or continue the normal process by closing the
debuger. I saved many hours looking for hidden faults, but it is just a idea.
Vladimir Vasilyev
@9214

selected the point where you wanted to start debugging

I hope you realize that in Red this "point" cannot even exist in a textual program at the time of debugging (e.g. code generation). Traditional breakpoints are extremely limited, and cover only a naive, static subset of the language.

Jose Luis
@planetsizecpu
I know, and there maybe also events code running ... bigger challenge, just a idea, as I said.
Vladimir Vasilyev
@9214
Not to mention dialects, for which debugging and error messages should be, ideally, domain-specific. Which means that Red should provide some "debugging framework" to build on top of.
JLCyclo
@JLCyclo
@luce80 For debugging a script step by step, try https://github.com/red/community/blob/master/tools/rdbstep.red
I will update this script to manage breakpoints in a way not to simulate automatic step commands until a breakpoint.
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
@meijeru, yes, lit-word args deserve a good article written about them, their exceptional flexibility, and the pitfalls that come with it.
@JLCyclo thanks for the reminder about that. I get an error just putting it in the console. Need to read up.
Type help or h or ? for help at the prompt (rdbstep)
*** Script Error: stepnext does not allow string! for its redsrc argument
*** Where: stepnext
*** Stack:
Will try to make time to check it out in the near future.
JLCyclo
@JLCyclo
In the header of rdbstep.red, there is some help
Usage: "From REPL : do/args %rdbstep.red <Red Script>"
How do you run the script rdb.red ?
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
I copied the source to the clipboard and did do read-clipboard in the console. Standard practice for me, when playing around. Will download and run standalone in the future.
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
@packetrhino if you'd like to be in the loop on any Expect related chat, let me know. I've done some reading today, and remembered a couple related projects I've done. One is send-keys, which is a Windows-only GUI lib for keystroke pumping. Another was an old Install Helper app that launched apps, watched for dialogs and interacted with them, etc.
packetrhino
@packetrhino
@greggirwin yes please do keep me in the loop
JacobGood1
@JacobGood1
@9214 and an easily extensible ide for those dialects
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
I have downloaded the latest red.exe for Windows (22-Sep-2019, sha: 7daa2dd5) and compiled the console (yielding gui-console-2019-9-22-34786.exe) but, strangely, when I ask for about, it gives me Red 0.6.4 for Windows built 20-Sep-2019/18:03:51+02:00 commit #04daa5e, which is a much older version. What am I doing wrong? Also, I can't see a commit with sha: 7daa2dd5 anywhere.
So far, one explanation seems to be that red-latest-exe has not been updated.
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
What OS? I don't see a 7daa2dd5 for any of the SHAs on the download page.
04daa5e is from 20-sep.
Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
@x8x ^---
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
@greggirwin I am on W10. 7daa2dd5 is part of the filename. Is that not the sha of the latest commit going into the latest .exe?
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
@x8x Progress site is again not up to date: latest commit on red/red/master (23 hours ago) does not show up.
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
Also, date of start of week is not shifted to 23 sept
FLuX
@x8x
Checking..
FLuX
@x8x
progress is fine, will have to investigate some JS timeout issues, JS is a mess..
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
:+1:
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
I am looking for the Wiki entry that lists the functions that still have TBD in their specs. It was recently made but not findable from the Wiki main page. Help!
Vladimir Vasilyev
@9214
@meijeru here.
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
Thanks to Ian Nomar for making this. I did an exhaustive scan of the pre-defined functions, and the only one he missed is request-dir which has a /multi refinement to be defined.
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
@meijeru I thought that signature part came from the build webhook, but can't find the details right now to verify. @x8x? :point_up: September 23, 2019 12:29 AM
FLuX
@x8x
All is good now, small issue related to the git submodule experiment.