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  • 11:51
    endo64 commented #4983
  • 11:10

    dockimbel on interp-events

    FEAT: minor improvement on loca… (compare)

  • Oct 17 23:35
    endo64 commented #4331
  • Oct 17 18:29

    dockimbel on interp-events

    FEAT: adds `words-of` reflector… FEAT: show local contexts inlin… (compare)

  • Oct 17 08:17
    hiiamboris closed #4793
  • Oct 17 08:09
    qtxie commented #4793
  • Oct 17 07:46
    hiiamboris commented #4793
  • Oct 17 07:45
    hiiamboris labeled #4793
  • Oct 17 07:44
    hiiamboris commented #4793
  • Oct 17 04:07

    qtxie on master

    FEAT: Linux: write-clipboard no… (compare)

  • Oct 17 03:58
    qtxie labeled #4983
  • Oct 17 03:58
    qtxie labeled #4983
  • Oct 17 03:58
    qtxie labeled #4983
  • Oct 17 03:57
    qtxie assigned #4983
  • Oct 17 03:57

    qtxie on master

    FIX: issue #4983 (CRASH Linux r… (compare)

  • Oct 17 03:54
    qtxie commented #4793
  • Oct 17 03:54
    qtxie commented #4793
  • Oct 17 03:16
    gltewalt commented #4979
  • Oct 15 22:05
    greggirwin commented #4982
  • Oct 15 16:29

    dockimbel on interp-events

    FEAT: preliminary work on full … (compare)

FLuX LoOP
@x8x
@meijeru Thanks for watching our back and reporting! Much appreciated :smile:
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
@meijeru on red/red#4047 the behavior is easy to reason about, but you're correct that it's not documented. It is by design however, as there is explicit integer handling logic. @gltewalt, would you please add an example to the image! docs?
Oldes Huhuman
@Oldes
@greggirwin I must disagree again with you. I consider @meijeru issue to be a bug. Sorry.
@greggirwin regarding your ask on chat comment... I don't like it either.. it is easy to lost info in these chats and quite often there is no response, like in this another buggy case
Gregg Irwin
@greggirwin
If someone says "Is this intended?", it's a questionable ticket. If we chat, and agree it's ticket-worthy, then we put it in a ticket. That simple.
If it's a bug, then it's either a design bug, and should be addressed as such, or a genuine bug, in which case we need to determine the correct/expected behavior.
Rudolf Meijer
@meijeru
I can reformulate it as a genuine bug by saying: since it has not been documented anywhere and is not obviously by design (at least not to me), I say there should be an error message that it is forbidden. That may then be dismissed by the Red team with proper justification and motivated interpretation of what it does.
I don't buy the argument of explicit integer handling, because one integer could also be interpreted as four bytes (RGBA).
Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
FYI, we have a WIP red/red#4049 on changing the underlying pair! type to use float32! components instead of integer!. As using floats for pairs is not always desirable (because of side-effects in float handlings), we are considering keeping the pair! as is, and introducing a new similar 2D type, but relying on floats. The hard part, as usual, is coming up with a proper syntax for such type (in addition to a proper name). So we are proposing coordinate! for such new type name and using the same syntax as pairs, but with mandatory decimal markers, e.g. 1.0x2.0. Such type would allow also an optional third coordinate. Would such syntax be acceptable?
Respectech
@Respectech
Would it be possible to also allow 1.x2. as
... a shortcut like it was possible in Rebol?
Petr Krenzelok
@pekr
shorter name could be coord!, but not sure Redbol land likes such abbreviations :-) OTOH, isn't float and abbreviation too?
As for the syntax, I have no idea what other syntax proposals could look like? So as for me - yes, the proposed syntax looks ok to me.
Toomas Vooglaid
@toomasv
Very welcome extension!
R cqls
@rcqls
Excellent!
Petr Krenzelok
@pekr
btw - how could GUI benefit from a subpixel accuracy?
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek
@pekr AGG-based Draw allowed for subpixel accuracy and it certainly helped a lot.
Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
An alternative name for such type is point!.
hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
@dockimbel I just wanted to say: Consider point! or point2d!. With a plan to have a point3d! in the future (surely this one will come handy). But you were faster :)
P.S. or point! can have a varying length, like tuple - 2 or 3 numbers
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek

(...) but not sure Redbol land likes such abbreviations

coord(inate)! is based on float32! which is an abbreviation itself. :smile: Anyway, point! is a better name I guess.

R cqls
@rcqls
Good point for point!!
hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
Also. Can we not use the comma , instead of x for this new type? I always wondered why comma is never used for anything in Redbol. 1.0,2.0,3.0 or 1.0x2.0x3.0. Without syntax highlighting the first one reads a bit easier to my eye.
Qingtian
@qtxie
@hiiamboris We use comma , already.
>> 1,0
== 1.0
hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
I see. Pity :)
Qingtian
@qtxie

btw - how could GUI benefit from a subpixel accuracy?

One example is the caret in the gui-console. The position is not accurate for now. When you press Enter key many times in the gui-console, you'll notice it.

hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
Yes, think also of draw used with scale. Think of the points expressed in red/REP#34. Think of the red/red#3336 problem (computing the text size).
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek
Custom GUI styles would benefit from it. I've got code in Rebol that is point!less (haha) to port to Red without floating pair!.
Petr Krenzelok
@pekr
Thanks for the answers re the subpixel accuracy usefulness. As for the name point!all the way ....
Toomas Vooglaid
@toomasv

@pekr Here is an example of subpixel accuracy importance. (You'll need also dftc.red and coffee).

If you run the file and stop the animation (by clicking on it) and then zoom into (wheel) then you might find the end-point of all the blue lines and see that orange line is drawn actually in a bit different place than the end-point of blue vectors. Blue ones are placed with sub-pixel accuracy, but orange line with pair!, i.e. pixel accuracy. (You can move the pic with mid-down dragging, ctrl-wheel to change rate).

Also, smallest circles are mis-sized and misplaced because there seems to be a lower limit on circle radius :)

Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
@hiiamboris The comma syntactic treatment is a decade-long discussion about keeping or dropping comma as decimal separator. Maybe it's time to revisit it. Though it's a pandora box, the resulting discussions usually have low signal/noise ratio, as many people tend to express their personal opinions instead of giving factual arguments.
hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
I've two arguments:
  • better worst-case readability: 1.0,2.0 vs 1.0x2.0
  • we get shorter syntax variant for free: 1,2 vs 1.0x2.0
Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
I see three main arguments for dropping the decimal comma:
  1. Demography: when taking the top 30 countries ranked by population, the ones using decimal point add up to ~4.5B, while the decimal comma ones add up to ~1.2B.
  2. Inconsistency in human-friendliness goal: comma is used by many in financial and scientific communities as digits grouping symbol. So why would we be more human-friendly by accepting 1,234 rather than 1,000,000? Moreover, why should we insist on localizing the decimal separator, if we don't localize everything else?
  3. Pretty much all the mainstream PL are standardizing on decimal point, freeing the comma for other literal forms.
@hiiamboris I agree.
R cqls
@rcqls
As a French mathematician, I never use comma as decimal (as we should do) since it is incoherent with list of numbers as in the example given by @hiiamboris 1,2 or 1.0,2.0.
Nenad Rakocevic
@dockimbel
@rcqls As a French too, I always use a comma when hand-writing, but a point for decimals when typing on a keyboard.
R cqls
@rcqls
@dockimbel That’s funny!
Jean-François CAUCHE
@jeffakakaneda_twitter
Hello ! I'm from France, former user of Rebol for my PhD in medieval history. I was really happy to discover Red. I'm using it actually for personal uses as I don't really work in the computer science field but always passionate and I'm teaching code and art to kids (and big kids too ;-) ) in schools and museums during workshops. I plan to use Red in my activity in order to make them discover this language and all its capacities. I join this room in order to meet people and discover more about Red.
hiiamboris
@hiiamboris
Hello and welcome, @jeffakakaneda_twitter :)
If you're more familiar with Rebol than Red yet, https://github.com/red/red/wiki/[DOC]-Differences-between-Red-and-Rebol page may be of help to you.
https://gitter.im/red/help is a place where we will help you learn Red :)
Jean-François CAUCHE
@jeffakakaneda_twitter
Thanks ! I wonder if there will be some Red users or a Red event at FOSDEM in Brussels in february.
Oldes Huhuman
@Oldes
What is advantage of having pair! 1x1 and point! 1.0x1.0?
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek
speed?
Oldes Huhuman
@Oldes
Have you counted the difference? I don't think there will be significant difference, but it will definitely complicate things elsewhere.
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek

so it's math.

As using floats for pairs is not always desirable (because of side-effects in float handlings), we are considering keeping the pair! as is, and introducing a new similar 2D type, but relying on floats.

Oldes Huhuman
@Oldes
I mean... what is wrong with having pair! based on float32 as it is in Rebol3?
When I read this, than only that No bitwise operations. (and, or, xor), which I never used.
Having float pair when dealing with images is a good thing imho.
So my opinion is, that it is definitely good to have float pair, but not two very similar types, which differ only in internal implementation.
Btw... I would like to have more dimensional points as a datatype.
Boleslav Březovský
@rebolek
@Oldes that's like saying we don't need integer! because we have float!
nedzadarek
@nedzadarek
@rebolek @Oldes it depends on the implementation of a floating numbers. According to stackoverflow answer the Lua used "floats" as it's number representation. I read that they didn't have "big problems" with "float handlings" nor speed.
As fair I remember DEC64 (implemented by @hiiamboris but I couldn't find the link) does not have that problems.