red/red

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François Jouen

@ldci

BTW: the code is about 10 faster under windows10 than under macOS. Any idea about this difference?

Oldes Huhuman

@Oldes

Debug cv build?

Or maybe better gpu on windows?

Edward de Jong

@CodingFiend_twitter

For those wondering why Windows is faster than Mac OS, i have noticed this performance difference many times, as i run Windows and Linux under OSX via VMware Fusion. One massive difference between Windows and OSX is that Windows has a much faster file system, with read ahead and caching, and OSX is rather dumb in this area. So anything that involves reading data is going to be noticeably faster in Windows, and since Windows will keep a file in RAM even after you have closed the file (on the off-chance that it might be used again), second and later runs of the same program on Windows tend to be rather quick. In general the I/O on OSX is slow. This may be unrelated to why redCV has a performance difference, but there is no cleaner comparison than the same exact hardware!

François Jouen

@ldci

@CodingFiend_twitter.Thanks for the the tips.For windows, I’m using virtualBox.

Edward de Jong

@CodingFiend_twitter

I have a Mac and Windows version of my Beads compiler (Beads is a completely different kind of language than Red, a State-Action-Model graphical language), and it is baffling how the Windows version is so much faster at compilation compared to the Mac version, running on the same hardware! I think it boils down to Windows being highly optimized for I/O after so many versions, while OSX has pursued Realtime Audio Processing integration, and fancy typography as priorities along the way.

Respectech

@Respectech

I have also noticed in my experience that Windows accessing files from a Windows fileserver is WAY slower than Windows accessing files from a Linux fileserver running CIFS, especially when the directory that is being accessed has thousands of files in it. And FreeBSD is even faster than Linux as a fileserver in this regard.

Oldes Huhuman

@Oldes

My experience is, that one can speed up Win10 i/o quite a lot by turning off Real-time protection.

Respectech

@Respectech

My experience is that the same Windows client has at least an order of magnitude speed improvement when accessing a large directory from a Linux fileserver when compared to the same directory on a Windows fileserver. Perhaps there's a way to speed up the Windows fileserver, but I would think the real-time protection would be running on the client machine.

Henrik Mikael Kristensen

@henrikmk

I suppose Windows is faster than MacOS in many areas because Windows does a lot of things inside the kernel, where MacOS spins everything out into services. But my knowledge on that might be quite outdated. It used to be like this back in the WinXP/OSX Tiger days.

Oldes Huhuman

@Oldes

I had a chance to try the new macOS on M1 chip and I was very surprised how faster it is when I compare in with MacBook Pro from year 2016 (even when running thru Rosetta emulation).

Henrik Mikael Kristensen

@henrikmk

The tragedy of the M1 is that we will not see this CPU family outside of Apple, so many people will not get to experience it.

Petr Krenzelok

@pekr

Is that M1 really so good in comparison to others? I mean - if Apple can develop such a cpu/gpu combination, could not just Samsung, nVidia or Qualcomm develop a similar one? All use the ARM designs, which they further develop / change, no?

Henrik Mikael Kristensen

@henrikmk

Everyone I hear using the M1 are a bit shocked at how fast it is, even on a Mac that only has 8 GB RAM. The key to the design is very wide memory buses and of course having all the memory right on the main chip. Also, each CPU core can saturate the memory controller that can handle around 60-70 GB/s. An intel/AMD CPU core can only do 15-25 GB/s. That's pretty astounding.

Then of course is the low TDP of less than 30 W can make it do long running tasks with little cooling needed. The GPU isn't very powerful though. The cost is also presently only a maximum of 16 GB RAM.

What is even more interesting is that Mx series CPUs will grow much faster in the near future, if Apple's CPU speed ramp will be maintained from the earlier Ax CPUs. There's lots of low-hanging fruit left for Apple to pick.

Petr Krenzelok

@pekr

So after all those years, they have finally implemented an Amiga :-)

Henrik Mikael Kristensen

@henrikmk

I always thought the iPhone was Amiga-like. It's a beautiful design in many ways.

Petr Krenzelok

@pekr

Should Intel be worried now? Will other tech companies follow with similar designs?

Henrik Mikael Kristensen

@henrikmk

Intel should worry for many other reasons, since they squandered their position for 7-8 years now. So far behind AMD now. The "upside" for them, is that Apple will also squander certain opportunities with the Mx series, such as producing open hardware at a reasonable price. That's not in their nature.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

@henrikmk While amiga architecture was designed to give Multimedia Chips maximum priority, M1 is designed CPU first. Now they only need to make a GPU designed the same way and they will have the best system possible right now.

Edward de Jong

@CodingFiend_twitter

Intel has lost the entire Apple account, which was probably at least 5% of Intel's total business. So it's a big loss. They have been idling for years they didn't have any serious competition. Intel still has the best Quantum Physicists on the planet, and they are only one invention away from blowing away the world again. We are in the plateau region of the development curve, where almost nothing changes. If you put more than 10 cores in a chip you don't get much useful work out of it, so we are flattening out everywhere in the computer biz.

pixel40

@pixel40

@GiuseppeChillemi Brings back memories. I had an Amiga with a 68060 accelerator, running Jim Drews Mac emulator. I used it in PrePress, and the Mac Emulator literally produced work 3 x faster than the fastest Mac you could buy at the time.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

We are in the plateau region of the development curve, where almost nothing changes. If you put more than 10 cores in a chip you don't get much useful work out of it, so we are flattening out everywhere in the computer biz.

We have still a large margin of improvement in software. Algorithms are tuned for single processor tasks. Once they will move to multi-core operations we will see again a lot of improvements.

GiuseppeChillemi

@GiuseppeChillemi

It is strange for europeans see the dollar symbol after euro currency, is there any way to change it?

>> as-money 'eur 22
== EUR$22.00

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

$ is the standard Red denotation. To use something else, form it and replace, or wait for format. The latter doesn't have a locale design yet.

Rudolf Meijer

@meijeru

The Unicode universal currency sign is U+00A4. Unfortunately that is outside the ASCII range... I try to put it here: ¤ Does everyone see it?

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

I do, Unicode shouldn’t be a problem today.

What’s problematic OTOH is locating such sign on most keyboards. With $ it’s much easier.

Petr Krenzelok

@pekr

How do I type it easily on a keyboard?

Boleslav Březovský

@rebolek

Exactly.

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

¤ was part of money's design discussion, and I have it in my format exploration. In addition to the typing issue, it's universal but also universally unknown. :^\ One thought I had in format was that $ could be literal for that symbol, but ¤ could be replaced based on a locale setting.

Wezl

@wezl:privacytools.io

[m]

While it may be of no importance, on Code Golf Stack Exchange, Red is the Language of the Month, which means more people will try to learn it and use it in the contest of code golf (where it does quite well, other than requiring a Red[] header :)

hiiamboris

@hiiamboris

Great!

Once we finish HOFs there'll be no competition ;)

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

Thanks for letting us know @wezl:privacytools.io !

Let people know they can come here for tips and tricks.

For the compass problem, others just use a literal, so Red could do that too, avoiding prin.

Raimon Grau

@kidd

hi, just wanted to ping you that ripgrep now recognizes red files: BurntSushi/ripgrep@53c4855

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

:+1:

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

Thanks for providing binaries.

./ripgrep>rg -tred /user:
unrecognized file type: red

2 replies

Edward de Jong

@CodingFiend_twitter

@pekr to get the Euro symbol, on the mac you type Option + Shift + 2, and on windows Alt and type 0128 The universal currency symbol was a really dumb idea, as it is nobody's currency, so basically a wasted unicode glyph that only confuses people. The committee running the Unicode consortium are dumb as doorposts; constantly making it more and more complex, and now busy turning it into a completely unsystematic clip art database that is only accessed by number, which is a misguided thing to do.

hiiamboris

@hiiamboris

on windows Alt and type 0128

Two issues: smaller keyboards don't have numpad, and you have to memorize the code which is a waste of brain cells. That's why I also asked Gregg not to use this symbol in format.
Oh and 3rd issue: I've experienced that in this load of crap which is W10 Alt+numpad entering didn't work in a whole range of revisions.

Galen Ivanov

@GalenIvanov

@wezl:privacytools.io Thank you for posting here! (I had forgotten)

Rondon

@djrondon

do you have a fix to run Red on Big Sur ?

Gregg Irwin

@greggirwin

You'll need to run Red in a container or VM @djrondon.

Rudolf Meijer

@meijeru

Concerning Red publicity as language of the month in Stack Exchange: is the following statement given there actually correct?

Red doesn't have reserved words, instead blocks (arrays / lists of arbitrary values) are used as arguments to functions. *

hiiamboris

@hiiamboris

Looks like a few topics mixed in one sentence. A typo?

Galen Ivanov

@GalenIvanov

@meijeru @hiiamboris It's probably my fault. @wezl:privacytools.io created the nomination, then I added more text to it. This sentence clearly doesn't make much sense. I suggest the following edit:

Red doesn't have reserved words, even conditionals and looping constructs are functions that use blocks (arrays / lists of arbitrary values) for their bodies.

hiiamboris

@hiiamboris

Well, these functions are natives written in Red/System code. You wouldn't go far without them. Though: you can rename them, and build your own loops on top of that.

If it's the "reserved words" you want to put accent onto, how about:

Red doesn't have reserved words. Even conditionals and looping constructs are ("native" function) values provided by runtime, which can be assigned any names.

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