rust-hosted-langs/runtimes-WG

kyren

@kyren

honestly, no

the behavior of arrays is just TOO surprising imo

or, the array like behavior of tables, I mean

madmalik

@madmalik

yeah, makes sense

kyren

@kyren

the # operator is exactly defined, it makes.. "sense", it's just really very frustrating

I guess.. it's fine until you want to actually use tables, it's fine because you can make userdata types that sort of fill in the gaps, like you could make a lua that just has a single bespoke array userdata always available or something

madmalik

@madmalik

on painpoint i haven't encountered personally but i can imagine exist is interfacing with formats like json

kyren

@kyren

which you actually very much have to do if you interact with something like json, the ambiguity between [] and {} and null values in arrays will bite you

oh haha, great minds :P

madmalik

@madmalik

kyren

@kyren

the runtime behavior of the array vs the map part and guessing at the runtime complexity is actually NOT that big of a deal I think, the worst part is that you're missing array semantics, but I suppose if you have a strong enough userdata story it doesn't matter that much, and that's sort of what lua is for in my mind?

madmalik

@madmalik

mhh, yeah

kyren

@kyren

which is also why it bothers me so much that bindings are inherently slow, and which is why I'm writing my own lua

madmalik

@madmalik

thanks for the long answer! its really interesting

kyren

@kyren

everyone always tells me that haha

madmalik

@madmalik

@kyren btw, since you thought about a name for what you called arena. the graph theory term for a subgraph with no connection to the outside would be a closure, which is unfortunately already taken in our domain. But what do you think about something like fence or barrier?

Bruce Mitchener

@waywardmonkeys

island

Edd Barrett

@vext01

Quick shout out for the Benchwork'18 workshop: https://conf.researchr.org/track/ecoop-issta-2018/benchwork-2018-talks

You are all benchmarking, right? ;)

(Deadline this friday)

Peter Liniker

@pliniker

I've had a lot going on in my evenings and weekends over the past 4 weeks so book progress has been minimal and sporadic. My unmerged WIP commits are being published here https://pliniker.github.io/book/master/ and the issue tracker is here https://github.com/rust-hosted-langs/book/issues

The direction the book will take is towards implementing Immix, given that Immix peforms generally well in various dimensions.

Peter Liniker

@pliniker

Other benefits are that @YorickPeterse has an implementation for Inko and there's another implementation in Rust out there connected with a published paper

btw @kyren - the RustConf closing keynote! That's very cool!

Yorick Peterse

@YorickPeterse

@pliniker if you want to know anything about how I did Immix, just shout :)

Peter Liniker

@pliniker

oh I will! :grinning:

Yorick Peterse

@YorickPeterse

maybe one day I can actually figure out how to turn that into a nice talk and have an excuse to go to RustConf

Dylan DPC

@Dylan-DPC

haha

madmalik

@madmalik

hey everyone who is still here: should we transfer to this channel into the rust discord?

since the rest migrated more or less i don't have gitter open all that much, i imagine thats the case for other people too

Aaron Weiss

@aatxe

Doesn't affect me. I'll continue to have both open either way. :wink:

madmalik

@madmalik

i don't feel strongly about it (and maybe we all should wait until discord is really where rust will end up...)

but i think in the long run it'll be better if all the groups end up in the same place/service

madmalik

@madmalik

the whole chat situation is a mess -.-

Aaron Weiss

@aatxe

Indeed! The one good thing that's come of it though is that I found out that Riot finally hired the UX designer it desperately needed and they're releasing a new UI Soon™.

madmalik

@madmalik

yay :) that sounds good

i hope that works. sometimes its hard to tack on a good UX when it wasn't a consideration from the start

Aaron Weiss

@aatxe

It looks promising at least.

madmalik

@madmalik

that look indeed very nice

all in all, i just may have to accept to have 3-4 different electron apps running... still less hassle than irc

Aaron Weiss

@aatxe

You can always use Rambox and run all the Electron apps in one program. :wink:

madmalik

@madmalik

mhh, i'll try that

Aaron Weiss

@aatxe

There's a couple other apps of that sort, like Franz.

Maybe you'll like one of them. :smile:

madmalik

@madmalik

the first thing that comes to my mind when i hear "franz" in the context of computers i think of franz lisp

Peter Liniker

@pliniker

@madmalik I've just this week logged into the rust-lang discord for the first time after seeing Steve Klabnik's IRLO post. It still looks like there's a fair amount of... discord... about using any single chat platform, my opinion, for now, is wait-and-see

(I'm still working on an immix implementation and documenting it, as I get time, btw. Definitely not inactive!)

madmalik

@madmalik

@pliniker wait-and-see seems fair

and yay for non-inactivity ;) i just started a new job and don't get much done in my freetime right now, but i'm also still working on some stuff related to this group

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