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segeljakt
@segeljakt
Second class = upcast to common supertype?
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
no, that terminology doesn't really exist afaict
segeljakt
@segeljakt
"So here we have the crux of the problem — we can have first-class monomorphic function values and we can have second-class polymorphic methods, but we can’t have first-class polymorphic function values … at least we can’t with the standard Scala definitions. And yet it’s first-class polymorphic function values that we need to map over an HList … what to do?"
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
no, first class polymorphism is a different thing
segeljakt
@segeljakt
ok
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
it's a more advanced topic
but it's got nothing to do with what you are talking about
Martijn Hoekstra
@martijnhoekstra
@hrhino don't you give me that nme pos tpe app pt qual tr gobbledygook - I run Windows and I'm pretty sure those are just part of GNU powertools
Harrison Houghton
@hrhino
watch me. you get lhs and sel too
and my favourite, mk
segeljakt
@segeljakt
Ok, I’m wondering, how would you define what an HList is
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
in what sense?
segeljakt
@segeljakt
compared to a regular List
Martijn Hoekstra
@martijnhoekstra

No command 'sel' found, but there are 18 similar ones

oh, thanks Bash. That's helpful.

Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
@klassegeljakt a heterogenous list
segeljakt
@segeljakt
Ok, compared to a List it preserves type information of each element. Compared to a Tuple, it abstracts over arity
Justin du Coeur, AKA Mark Waks
@jducoeur
Correct.
segeljakt
@segeljakt
is it “arity polymorphic”?
or do you call it something else
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
it doesn't really abstract over arity on its own
it just happens to have an inductive structure
and one can use typeclasses to "abstract over arity"
But I wouldn't call an HList arity polymorphic, personally
segeljakt
@segeljakt
ok
Seth Tisue
@SethTisue
normally when we say “arity” we’re talking about functions
idk, I guess we say it about tuples
segeljakt
@segeljakt
is it
def foo[<kinds>](<arity>) = …
Seth Tisue
@SethTisue
as Fabio indicates, an HList is really just a series of nested tuples of arity 2
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
kinds there also doesn't make sense :)
those are type parameters
a kind is a different thing
btw I can explain most of those terms if you want, I just don't want to throw a ton of info at you at once
Ichoran
@Ichoran
Arity just means "how many arguments". It doesn't tell you whether they are type arguments or value arguments.
Or what you pack them into.
segeljakt
@segeljakt
I should not have wrote it like that
1-kind: Foo[A]
2-kind: Foo[A,B]
3-kind: Foo[A,B,C]
…?
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
ehm, kind of
no pun intended
segeljakt
@segeljakt
lol
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
your notation is too imprecise
the 1-kind, 2-kind thing
Ichoran
@Ichoran
Mathematical vectors have arity, for instance. v = (a, b) is a 2-ary vector.
segeljakt
@segeljakt
(y)
How would you explain kinds?
Fabio Labella
@SystemFw
it cannot distinguish between Either[A, B] and Free[F, R] (the F there can be IO, not Int, whereas the A in Either can be IO[Int], or String, but not IO)
that's the explanation I use for kinds
first of all, talking about kinds in Scala is a bit weird, the notation is not great
so I'm going to use Haskell notation, which is std, and show you the translation to scala
basically it starts with types
a type is a compile time label that's attached to a term (a term is a value like 1 or "hello" or map), which can be used to statically prove the absence of certain behaviour