scala/slip

THIS ROOM IS NOW CLOSED. use scala/contributors, scala/center, and http://contributors.scala-lang.org

Jorge

@jvican

@jducoeur Happy to post about future SPP meeting in scala/center. Though, wouldn't it be better to use scala/contributors as a unique replacement for scala/slip?

Martijn Hoekstra

@martijnhoekstra

I realize that the scala center and the SIP and SPP processes are in a transitional state, and things aren't as tidy as they would like to be, but I'm starting to lose track of the communication and information channels surrounding these things.

Jorge

@jvican

Aha, I'm proposing to use scala/contributors instead of scala/slip for all the communication regarding SIP and SPP.

And then redirecting people to scala/center for meta discussion or questions like the one you have just made :)

Martijn Hoekstra

@martijnhoekstra

I'll take my comments there then :D

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

@jvican Question, do I need to make a new proposal on the Discourse forum for the json-ast SLIP?

Jorge

@jvican

Yes, I recommend you that you submit a proposal to include the JSON ast as a Platform module.

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

Ok thanks, will do

Jorge

@jvican

Also, the more it's being used by the Community, the better. Do you know if the Play/Lightbend guys would be interested in shipping it?

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

Yes, they are waiting for it to be released. There is also this https://github.com/scala/slip/pull/28#issuecomment-263517532

Also @eed3si9n wants to use it in SBT

Jorge

@jvican

That's perfect :)

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

And the guys from Lift want to use it

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

Lightbend projects as well ;)

Jorge

@jvican

Make sure to write that in the proposal :)

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

we mostly just need a final package name

will play around with it a bit more, though for our cases it's inter-op that is the feature, so won't complain much about things ;)

Jorge

@jvican

@ktoso you could perhaps report your findings to @mdedetrich so that he can improve the spec and implementation

I see a good collaboration here!

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

so far we're ok with it, I'll spend some time on it this week again

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

@jvican Its more the case that people want are waiting for the JSON AST to be released because the switch is only worth the effort if its something thats stable and released

Kinda a chicken and egg problem

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

when I say we I mean (akka http / spray json / play team mentioned they'd adopt too)

yeah, it really is chicken and egg...

Jorge

@jvican

Yeah, looks like it

How much time do you think it will take you to submit the proposal @mdedetrich ?

Matthew de Detrich

@mdedetrich

Also this entire point has already been discussed ad neusuem, but I will repeat the references in the proposal

@jvican It will be done by today, starting to work on it now

Jorge

@jvican

Our first SPP meeting will probably be Tuesday, 17th January

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

thanks and kudos for hanging in there with this proposal @mdedetrich :+1:

Jorge

@jvican

Sounds good :+1:

Konrad `ktoso` Malawski

@ktoso

talk to you all later

Jorge

@jvican

have a nice day guys

Dale Wijnand

@dwijnand

we've started using it already in sbt 1

https://github.com/sbt/util/blob/613bf8b0344f467ec43b9b65f7975bf3701cb194/project/Dependencies.scala#L41

"org.mdedetrich" %% "scala-json-ast" % "1.0.0-M4"

Justin du Coeur, AKA Mark Waks

@jducoeur

@jvican It's not an either/or. This is important stuff, so you want to get word out fairly broadly to the community when things are happening, so posting announcements to scala/center (or even scala/scala) would be appropriate, quite possibly as well as scala/contributors.
Tangent, due to your use of "unique": one of the most common mistakes organizations make when it comes to social media is looking for The One True Place To Post. That's always a mistake: if something is important (and IMO SPP is pretty important), you should mention it broadly, on a bunch of distinct outlets, so folks know it's happening. Those announcements can and should be brief pointers of where to find more information, not in-depth, but it's worth a little extra effort to get the word out; otherwise, you often get people feeling (whether reasonably or not) that they're being kept out of the loop.
In other words, in-depth discussions of this stuff should have one distinct home, and scala/contributors seems appropriate. But announcements, such as upcoming SPP meetings and links to their agendas, should be broadcast more widely. It's the announcements I was referring to above.

Justin du Coeur, AKA Mark Waks

@jducoeur

@jvican BTW, this is especially important since you're moving most of the discussion over to Discourse. It's a reasonable place for discussion, but a terrible one for announcements. In social media terms, there are two broad categories of media, "push" and "pull". Push technologies are ones that are in your face, where information comes to you; pull ones are media that you need to go seek out. Email is the purest form of push; realtime systems like Gitter and Slack are push-y but also lossy -- people are likely to see stuff, but only if they are around at the time. Forum systems like Discourse are mainly pull technologies (you can make them push-y in the Preferences, but it takes a lot of work for each member to set up), and they're great for in-depth discussions among dedicated people, but lousy for getting the word out more widely. Announcements need to go to where people already are, using push mechanisms instead; otherwise, the larger community will simply never notice them.
So my recommendation is that you should put the in-depth announcements on Discourse, but then link to those announcements from several of the major Gitter channels. In other words, you push the notification somewhat aggressively to everybody, and then the ones who care can pull the details.
(Sorry for wandering into social-media-tech speak, but this has been one of my professional specialties for 30 years.)

Dale Wijnand

@dwijnand

As long as in the actual message, as opposed to in the text linked, you include where discussions should take place (something like "join the discussion over at X"). Because if you mention a topic, people will naturally start commenting on it there rather than the preferred location. Otherwise you risk important comments and feedback being missed and ignored, and you risk people not in seeing the comments and feedback in X random room then feeling "out of the loop".

Exactly like what happened in scala/scala where talk of SPP happened..

Justin du Coeur, AKA Mark Waks

@jducoeur

Yep, quite true. It's all about getting the word out widely, while trying to focus the conversation itself in one place.

Martijn Hoekstra

@martijnhoekstra

or, ironically, here, since it should(tm)(r) happen in scala/center. Though it's probably not as important for gitter rooms as they are intended to be at least somewhat ephemeral communication channels where comments are not expected to be retained

Jorge

@jvican

@jvican BTW, this is especially important since you're moving most of the discussion over to Discourse. It's a reasonable place for discussion, but a terrible one for announcements. In social media terms, there are two broad categories of media, "push" and "pull". Push technologies are ones that are in your face, where information comes to you; pull ones are media that you need to go seek out. Email is the purest form of push; realtime systems like Gitter and Slack are push-y but also lossy -- people are likely to see stuff, but only if they are around at the time. Forum systems like Discourse are mainly pull technologies (you can make them push-y in the Preferences, but it takes a lot of work for each member to set up), and they're great for in-depth discussions among dedicated people, but lousy for getting the word out more widely. Announcements need to go to where people already are, using push mechanisms instead; otherwise, the larger community will simply never notice them.
So my recommendation is that you should put the in-depth announcements on Discourse, but then link to those announcements from several of the major Gitter channels. In other words, you push the notification somewhat aggressively to everybody, and then the ones who care can pull the details.
(Sorry for wandering into social-media-tech speak, but this has been one of my professional specialties for 30 years.)

I agree with everything you've said, we won't miss the opportunity to spread the word about our Discourse discussion threads in Gitter and Twitter. The least thing I would like to do is to keep people out of the loop. Thanks for the advice, it's very useful.

Seth Tisue

@SethTisue

@jvican shall we shut this room down?

Jorge

@jvican

Yes, what shall we do with the GitHub repo?

Seth Tisue

@SethTisue

hmm... leave it in place so old links to discussions remain good, but close all the issues and PRs, and replace the README with something that says where to go instead. ?

let's discuss further elsewhere

opened scala/slip#35

Seth Tisue

@SethTisue

I don't see anything in Gitter that lets us make this room read-only. I hesitate to actually delete it. I guess we'll just declare it closed and suggest that people leave the room

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