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  • Aug 11 20:51
    @RubenVerborgh banned @mikeadams1
Vincent
@Vinnl
I added a link to the CoC in the app-development Gitter as well as apparently I had sufficient access to do so.
Timea
@theRealImy

I added a link to the CoC in the app-development Gitter as well as apparently I had sufficient access to do so.

Wow that was super proactive, thank you!
Could you please mention this on the ticket too? Just to keep track of it or know that it was done/attempted.

Vincent
@Vinnl
Done!
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad

Hi friends! Here is the Solid Community Survey we talked about in the meeting.. :tada:

Survey Link: https://research.typeform.com/to/e9dsorQz

The survey will be open until Friday, June 25, 4:00pm Eastern Time.

Matthias Evering
@ewingson
done ((checkmark)) good questions, empathetic, good peace of work, kudos to the team...
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad
Thanks @ewingson! :blush:
Timea
@theRealImy
Also done. Nicely prepared! I am curious about the results already, it was such a great idea!
Timea
@theRealImy
wow! The solid logo is amazing. Happy pride month!
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad
Thanks @theRealImy! Looking forward to the results also :grinning:
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
Hello @/all! We noticed that our next meeting falls on the week of Inrupt’s all hands, so a number of us won’t be able to attend, including @KyraAssaad and I who wanted to present the survey results, so we were wondering if you would all be ok with rescheduling for the next week or so? @MarrelleBailey will send out new invitations if nobody has any inconvenient with rescheduling! Thanks in advance!
oliviamrl
@oliviamrl
Works for me!
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
I can switch but keep in mind that we have a Chairs meeting on the 20th so one week later at same time won't work.
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
You’re right @jeff-zucker, we will possibly have to do it two weeks later
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad
@jeff-zucker Could we push the Chairs meeting one week later as well, to keep the same cadence?
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
Oops, forgot to press enter. That would work fine for me.
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Great I will move the meeting to the following week only for this month
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
Both meetins?
we have DEI, DEI chair, and Team this week
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
I am speaking about the DEI meeting, I can move the chair meeting to late next week. but the DEIT Chair meeting is meant to be held next week on Tuesday but I can move it to Thursday. The DEI Chair meeting is always the following week from the DEIT meeting.
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Hi DEI Team, my apologies for sending this note last minute. We are canceling the DEI meeting for tomorrow, July 20. The meeting for August 10th is still scheduled. During this meeting, we get to hear how the survey went and construct the next steps! If you need me to add you to the invite, please privately message me! If there's anything you may need (or want some support) between now and our next meeting on the 10th, please do not hesitate to reach out. :D Sending kindness and joy to all of you!
Matthias Evering
@ewingson
my apologies for August, 10th - will be camping then. catch you up one month later ...
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Okay safe travels and trip @ewingson !!
Matthias Evering
@ewingson
thank you @MarrelleBailey
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Hi all! We get into some very exciting conversations and questions during Solid World. It’s tough that sometimes we don’t get to touch on every questions or note during the event. So to help with continue the conversation even after Solid World ends we created the Solid World Gitter chat. Anyone and everyone can join! Hope to see you there: https://gitter.im/solid/SolidWorld!
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Does anyone have anything to present tomorrow during the DEI team meeting? If not, here's where the notes and agenda for tomorrow live: https://hackmd.io/eiS6Mqu4ToWHDYwP0iHA3A?both
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
I will drop a link for the video conferencing tomorrow, the day of the event. If you would like to be included in the invite, shoot me a private message with your email.
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Here is where we will be meeting in 10 mins: https://meet.jit.si/IntriguingSuspensionsSeekAhead
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad
I was wondering how people feel about recording the DEI meetings. I personally feel that we already take notes for the meetings, and that in order to make it feel like a safe space, we don’t really need to record the event itself and post it online. How do others feel?
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
I agree.
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
One thing I forgot to mention is that I personally think even when the pandemic is over and we move back into doing in-person events, we should make them remote friendly so that everyone can participate, including those who cannot go to a particular city or people with disabilities.
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
It is my belief that they should be recorded and they should be published, sold his public, and therefore all things solid and all groups should maintain a public forward facing position. Secrets are lies, and there should be no fear of anyone to state their position in today’s modern era. If somehow you feel that being different should be construed to mean secretive, then that just shows how far society has not come.
Marrelle Bailey (She/Her)
@MarrelleBailey
Hi @mikeadams1 , thanks for your feedback. It's not that we are condoning secrets. The goal is to create a safe space. Sometimes it can be scary or daunting to say your thoughts, especially when you know many can say or use your words in the wrong way. Even in this era, some people are not kind and understanding. I believe we can record the presentations and document action items. But when we have safe space talk, we can turn off the recording.
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad
@mikeadams1 The DEIT gitter channel, meetings, and github are all public - anyone can join or contribute. That does not mean that the meetings need to be recorded and posted online. There are detailed notes taken during the meetings that are publicly posted. I was suggesting that recording the meetings on top of that seems unnecessary and actually can make people feel less inclined to join or participate.
I personally would prefer to not have the DEIT meetings recorded
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
I agree, the publicly posted meeting notes satisfy the criterion of transparency and public access, there is no reason to also post a video recording. Except for special presentations that we want to preserve, I am in favor of dropping the recording.
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
@MarrelleBailey IMHO, I am not really sure what you would want to discuss that would require a safe space (privacy), I am of the belief that, if you have something to say to someone that you do not want in the general public, then one should reserve that conversation for a more private setting (not in the work place). The Diversity Equity and Inclusion Team should not start out by exclusion of conversations that could be meaningful, and educational to others you are trying to win over to your position. There is a historic significance to these conversations that should be preserved and documented. Your use of the word "safe space" is cloaked as though your group is targeted somehow by evil doers and requires special protection of some sort. @KyraAssaad I am of the belief that we need to treat each other equally, regardless of sexual identity, race, gender or what have you. It just sounds to me that your attempting to create some type of special privilege or class here and I think that we should talk about this a little further. @jeff-zucker I understand that is your position, but, it appears that you all work for inrupt which appears to be a conflict of interest, in that, you three are making policy for inrupt, but that does not mean that the entire solid community should have to accept it. If your in a court room and being tried for something and the judge turns off the recording to prevent an undocumented statement to be made, that is unjust and prejudices others.
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
@mikeadams1 due to the nature of the topics we discuss in the DEIT sessions, sometimes people share their own personal experiences of exclusion, harassment, discrimination, etc. and that is why a safe space is needed. Not recording and sharing those recordings publicly does not go against transparency, as we keep detailed records of our meetings and everyone is welcome to join those meetings.
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
@VirginiaBalseiro My opinion is that, if someone on your team is experiencing discrimination, harassment or exclusion on the job, then that should be made public without delay so that it can be addressed. Are you stating that inrupt has a toxic work environment, or is this some kind of past prior experiences you are referring to? Are you stating that the solid community is toxic in the same way?
Virginia Balseiro
@VirginiaBalseiro
I am not stating any of that. My point is that people share personal experiences and thoughts that they might not want in video. That's all. Also there are many other groups that do not record their meetings, it is by no means a requirement, so we're just thinking of changing that, which does not mean we will not share the meeting notes.
Aaron Coburn
@acoburn
I believe public meeting minutes suffice for transparency. I see no reason why a recording is necessary
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
On a related note, the minutes - as in text taken by scribes - may also be paused at the request of speaker.
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
@mikeadams1 a) no I have never received a penny from Inrupt, I do not work for them or anyone else, I am a full-time unpaid independent contributor. I am a member of the Solid Project Team which facilitates this chat, Solid World and the other open source parts of the project all of which Inrupt personnel help with but none of which Inrupt manages. b) The Solid Project and its DEIT and its members participate as volunteers in an openly published process. We DO make policy for the Solid Project because that is our stated written purpose. If you experience this as some kind of tyranny, that is your issue, it has no basis in reality. If you don't like the way we operate either leave or read the process and follow it to try to make changes. c) I do not know of a single organization that requires that its meetings be video recorded. We post minutes as most organizations do and the meetings are open. That is totally sufficient for transparency. d) Your idea that people do not have a right to privacy about their experience of exclusion is not at all in keeping with the stated goals and process of either the Solid Code of Conduct or the W3c Safe Working Environment document. People have an absolute right to privacy on these issues and they also have a right to discuss them with whomever they want without being recorded. e) Your repeated belligerence about the DEIT is making multiple people feel uncomfortable and I suggest you either keep your opinions to yourself or tone down your language.
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
👍
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
@all If I made anyone here in the DEIT feel uncomfortable, please accept my apologies.
Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
@mikeadams1 , you wrote "all things solid and all groups should maintain a public forward facing position." Perhaps we have a different meaning of transparency, but that sentence is what I mean be transparency - making things public and maintaining a public forward facing position. So, no I am not putting words in your mouth. I agree that it is a valid concern, but one that is satisfied by having the meetings be open-attendance and the minutes publicly published. Mike, I did not call you any name, I simply stated a fact that I know to be true, which is that your behavior in this chat rooms make multiple people feel uncomfortable.
Kyra Assaad
@KyraAssaad

Hi @mikeadams1. When I had asked how other people feel about recording the DEI meetings, if you had said, "I would prefer to have them recorded so that we who do not attend, can at least follow when it is convenient,” that would have been great. But to me, it felt like you went on a diatribe about how “secrets are lies” and that the DEI Team is actively excluding conversations. You accused me of creating a special privilege or class, and you attacked Jeff for “making policy for Inrupt”. Then you put words into Virginia’s mouth by suggesting that Inrupt has a toxic work environment.

The fact is, Mike, that your statements are aggressive. Your choice of words makes people feel attacked, uncomfortable, and unsafe. And that is not tolerated in either the DEI Team chat, or the Solid community.

Jeff Zucker
@jeff-zucker
I agree with Kyra, words like "lie", "secret", and "tyranny" are not neutral words that simply express an opinion about recording videos, the are derogatory statements about the this community and the people who are trying to improve the community.
Aaron Coburn
@acoburn
@mikeadams1 I would refer you to the Solid code of conduct: https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md
Ghost
@ghost~5bfd3ed4d73408ce4fb0367e
@acoburn I will read it!