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Ghost
@ghost~57bc59d440f3a6eec060e93b

it needs to be converted from draft to entry - don’t know how to do that.

note also: i’ve started working on the broad ‘web science’ aspects via https://gitter.im/p2p-pub-party/community

At this stage, particualrly interested in ontologists. (or would be ontologist)

i can help, but - i’m not sure the convo is one about solid, perhaps it’s certainly about linked-data but i don’t think they have an ‘how to ontologist’ room -
i would like to start with ontologising http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ as no one seemingly has yet
Eduardo Ibacache Rodriguez
@eduardoinnorway
Hola everyone, I am organising a Solid Meetup in Stockholm, Sweden next month and I would like to present some of the projects going on around the Solid community for example “Darcy” by @JollyOrc and the Pod hosting by @gibsonf1, if you are doing anything you would like me to promote send me a PM, a one page slider is enough with “what, how, when”.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@gibsonf1 re email, RDF, LDN, Solid etc.. I'll have to dig the links up but long time (over 10 years.. 15?) there was work on RDFisation of mailing lists.. There is also someone (poka IIRC on Freenode/swig) that does cool stuff with their emails -> available as LD. As for anything along the lines of 'messaging ontology', one starting place may be to check out https://lov.linkeddata.es/dataset/lov/ to see if there is one mapping the RFC terms to RDF. You can alternatively look into https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/ which has some of the common fields as well - so that wouldn't be "replicating" email but will give you the essentials so to speak. As for whether LDN is fit to mimic email or not.. I'd curious to better understand primary pain points. I'd lean on not using LDN for obvious reasons (I think), and stick to IMAP/POP/SMTP or whatever.. RDFising the contents makes more sense for this particular case. If the use cases go outside of emailing, move towards AP/AS2/LDN..
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@theWebalyst We've documented some here: https://linkedresearch.org/resources#vocabularies-and-ontologies . In the thesis that I'm writing, I expand on the list with brief explanations.. I'll publish that when ready and probably update the LR site too.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
Thanks Sarven. :smile:
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
@csarven One thing I was wondering which I don't see in that list is what to do about document markup. I'm not sure if it makes sense, but I was thinking it would make sense to use RDF for content, as well as metadata, so ontology for markup (headings, text styles etc). What do you do in Dokieli?
I see this: "the Document Components Ontology (DoCO) in an ontology that provides a structured vocabulary written of document components, both structural (e.g., block, inline, paragraph, section, chapter) and rhetorical (e.g., introduction, discussion, acknowledgements, reference list, figure, appendix);"
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
@theWebalyst what is the point?
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
I'm not sure. I'm enquiring, trying to understand.
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
i think you normally want the context that the content represents as triples, not the content structure as triples
unless you want to somehow transform the latter into the former as RDF
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
I was thinking that if I am accessing documents as Linked Data, and transforming those for presentation (so say to create a website/blog from a bunch of documents created and managed by Solid apps), it might make sense for the metadata and markup all to be in one and the same format (RDF) rather than have a separate serialisation for content. Though I can see reasons for doing either.
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
you could use SPARQL to do smth like this: https://github.com/MontFerret/ferret/
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
What does Dokieli use to store content with markup?
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
RDFa as far as I know
but @csarven should answer this :)
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
I'm not talking about scraping. I'm saying:
  • I create documents on my Solid storage using Solid apps (say I author blog posts and store them in /public/blog)
  • I have a blog view/website that can read the contents of /public/blog and present it as a website/blog
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter

it might make sense for the metadata and markup all to be in one and the same format

for interleaving metadata with markup the only format AFAIK is RDFa

Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
Looks like RDFa is what I was looking for. Thanks @namedgraph_twitter
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
np
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Yes, in dokieli RDFa in HTML, SVG, MathML. There are upper level ontologies or "general purpose" document level stuff that can be captured. As @namedgraph_twitter , mentioned, it depends a bit on how much of that you want to preserve. dokieli makes some calls on that eg. relationships between sections and order.. labels for the sections (usually within hX) and descriptions (usually within divs) that contain arbitrary structures/information.
So, when the UI lets you create a subsection, that stuff is automatically taken care so the the user doesn't have to do anything further.
If you want to have a feed view, you can use the "Open" from the dokieli menu and input (or select) a container URI. There is basic built-in know-how to view activities/resources (like AS2 but not strictly). The idea is to do a 'save' or 'save as' on that to generate a homepage/feed of sorts including your posts. Still in the works but the foudnation is there.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
What we need to do in dokieli is to make sure that all important enough content is captured in RDFa so that it can be preserved when it is parsed/reserialised to other RDF syntaxes... and then be able to reconstruct the RDFa if need to.
AFAIK It is mostly captured but maybe some information is not.
The point of having the structure be representable in RDF (and not only in HTML) is so that when it is parsed as RDFa, another HTML(+RDFa) structure can be used - down the line.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
and yes, re "metadata" and markup being all in one so to speak. See https://twitter.com/csarven/status/1078587317038796800 . HTML in this case is just the hosting language for something like RDFa so that information at any level of abstraction can be captured in markup languages (HTML, XML family..). HTML in and itself doesn't do that - which is fine. The key advantage here is using a declarative langauge that serves to be human and machine-interpretable.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
In other words, we don't over and above care about HTML's structure or markup-level semantics. It just enables us to 'host' our information. Especially if RDF is encapsulated on the human-visible Information. Any agent - virtually under the sun - that deals with HTML can show something for the human without additional machinery whatsoever. The machine-readable parts is in the RDFa, and if the consumer knows what to do with it, they can take advantage of it.
</evangelising>
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@happybeing
Thanks @csarven. Very helpful.
Muhammad Hashir Rizwan
@hashir107_gitlab
Fred Gibson
@gibsonf1
@hashir107_gitlab You can just assign the Read acl to the user and Control acl to the App within the pod to accomplish this. In theory, I think an app could write a lot of information on a user pod and not give access to the user - which does bring up some potential abuse of pod issues.
Fred Gibson
@gibsonf1
@csarven Thanks Sarven - this looks interesting: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/
Mark Foster
@mfosterio
Does anyone know a resource to read about browser adaptation of WebID?
noting, webid is distinct to any auth extension.
@mikcaweb (or: https://github.com/mikcaweb ) is a webid
Mark Foster
@mfosterio
@mediaprophet Thanks for the response. I am aware of the access to webid via servers utilizing js, html and css. I should have been more clear on section 5. Recommended Browser Improvements by the W3C located here: https://www.w3.org/2011/identity-ws/papers/idbrowser2011_submission_22/webid.html
Mark Foster
@mfosterio
Maybe we start a project for browser extensions that queries a list of WebId providers that support the Solid POD concept and creates a simple user experience for general users to pick a provider. The list of WebID providers could be a public linked dataset with Schema.org references. Hmmm... WebIDproviders.org
Fred Gibson
@gibsonf1
Is there an easy way to fetch(load) all statements for a URI where that URI is in both the subject and object position?
Ghost
@ghost~57bc59d440f3a6eec060e93b
@mikcaweb imho - a fork of https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker might yield something interesting.
wouldn't it be nice to have a solid browser
konobi
@konobi
I'm familiar with the ecosystem around beaker (dat, hypercore, etc.)