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Dan Keith
@DoctorBud

@SharonStrats assuming you are following these instructions:

https://github.com/solid/node-solid-server#running-in-development-environments

then it is odd that your bin/solid-test is not marked as executable. Perhaps you are in a Windows environment?

The instructions for openssl and creating a self-signed certificate are a little later in the docs above:

https://github.com/solid/node-solid-server#how-do-i-get-an-ssl-key-and-certificate

openssl req -outform PEM -keyform PEM -new -x509 -sha256 -newkey rsa:2048 -nodes -keyout ../privkey.pem -days 365 -out ../fullchain.pem
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo
@all
Tomorrow there's a [W3C Solid Community Group] call at 1000 CEST
If you are working on a panel please submit a pull on https://github.com/solid/information/blob/master/weekly-updates/next.md#panel-conversation-to-generate-proposals to let others know about progress this week, we'll go through this during the call too
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo

Here is the next edition of This Week in Solid

The next call will be on the 29th August at 1600CEST. If you would like to add an item to the agenda do so here

solid-pay
@solid-pay
FYI:
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst

I went to my first JavaScript Meetup last night in Gloucestershire UK and recommend it. I also talked a bit about Solid and SAFE, more in the following post on the SAFE forum in case anyone is interested:

https://safenetforum.org/t/cheltenham-javascript-meetup-report/29641?u=happybeing

Interesting @solid-pay , thanks.
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo
@happy-dev maybe something to include in This Week in Solid?
also, have you considered joining the External Interop Panel?
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
@Mitzi-Laszlo I assume that's me! By all means if you think it suitable. Dimitri (I think) invited me to that panel. Thanks, but I don't have time to add another channel although I am interested, so maybe I'll be able to help ad hoc.
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo
Indeed, I meant you :) If you're interested in joining a panel you'll need to submit a pull request. This Week in Solid is a newsletter so you don't need to add another channel or subscribe, rather it's a good place to publish updates by submitting a pull request here
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
yeh, i meant the panel. PRs seem a bit convoluted but I'll see. Thx
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
Thinking about using GitHub for panels, weekly update etc... I get that may have been chosen to provide an open record (or other reasons) but I think it creates a barrier that will discourage engagement. How many people have even done a PR? I did one as a test in the last four years, and I am not sure that it's practical from mobile/tablet, so again it has to wait until I'm at my desktop, which is when I want to focus on code. Etc etc! Maybe that's just me of course 🙂
sideshowtom
@sideshowtom
@theWebalyst Hi Mark, sorry but I have to disagree. I think Github, for all its faults of centralization and privatization, was created as a tool for people to work together and it works pretty well. Joining a panel is just a way of liking it or voting for it and indicating a that you might post messages about it, or pull requests to the repository for the panel. Pull requests aren't easy but they're probably about as easy as they can make them and it won't be easy to duplicate or emulate the UI in solid anytime soon. Maybe joining a panel could be done outside of Github, but then to make contributions panellists will need to learn it. BTW thank you for all your work on Solid and SAFE!
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
Thanks Tom, no problem with different points of view! Maybe I don't understand what a panel is (and I don't know why this approach was taken so there may be other important factors I'm not aware of), but I'd say a forum or wiki is much more accessible for discussion - or even a gitter channel. There are many other options, and I'm not saying it should be X or y, just that I think using GitHub PRs is going to reduce participation.
Same for the weekly update, so I'm not just thinking about panels.
sideshowtom
@sideshowtom
@theWebalyst ... @Mitzi-Laszlo can explain better but I think panels are intended to come up with documents that describe proposed changes to the Solid spec documents. In doing that a prototype may or may not be created. So the panels foster cooperation to come up with something concrete beyond just conversations.
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
Thanks both, I'll have a read.
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
I think I have read that before, at least the start, before I keeled over and thought this is over burdening (for me). I am a systems type, so I'm not saying it isn't needed or appropriate, but I'm not going to get involved in something like that when personally I prefer to do things without so much overhead and my guess it it will discourage others too. To join a panel you have to submit a PR seems daft (to me), while it also refers to a gitter channel for some things (but I've already forgotten what that is for - some of us have to read something like that several times to begin to understand it. I've always found the same with W3C specs, well specs in general, and I've had to read them for decades). The weekly update to would I think get more input if contributing was more accessible, although I'm not sure if there's an easy way to do that without an editor. My time at my desktop is limited, so I'll continue to focus on code when there. Let's see how it works out, I certainly hope enough people are willing to get involved in refining and improving Solid and it's spec, but I'm not sure I can contribute much to that anyway. I just thought it worth a comment.
</ramble>
sideshowtom
@sideshowtom
I dont know how I would have made an initiative on AI and Solid without that structure. It may be inappropriate or it may fizzle out, who knows, but so far there is a repository and a start. Ive seen so many people come and go, and I'd venture to say that most of them don't get paid for this, so I think this kind of thing is helpful.
sideshowtom
@sideshowtom
most companies dont need this kind of thing, with them, its all opaque
Jordan Shurmer
@JordanShurmer
@theWebalyst good thoughts. Do you have any suggestions for better editing/plannig/conversation/documenting/etc tools that would provide similar features to what github repos provide, but without the burden that it brings for you?
(to be clear though, I personally find the github repos and the PR requirement and all that intuitive and enjoyable. But I do wonder what other sort of experiences there are for similar purposes)
Tim Berners-Lee
@timbl
Let’s make A solid based system which hits a sweet spot
Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
Solid Repo's?
Tim Berners-Lee
@timbl
Solid projects, solid issues..
Yes and solid repos
Dan Keith
@DoctorBud

@Vinnl_gitlab Thanks for the feedback. I added some explanatory text to https://smartdown.solid.community/public/smartdown/#/public/SolidLDFlex.markdown:

Smartdown is a Markdown-compatible language for authoring interactive documents. It resembles Jupyter, but has a version-compatible source format, and requires no server to remain interactive. Good for experimenting with, integrating and discussing other technology.
Solid complements Smartdown nicely, by providing a place and an authentication scheme to enable controlled access (read and write) to this data.

Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
That would be great!
Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
:+1: all. I'm not saying don't use GitHub for collaboration, although I support moving everything off it when we can build something truly open/decentralised. That's not my issue here, it's ease of getting involved to find out if you can/want to contribute that I'm commenting on. I think to join a discussion could be easier using a mailing list , gitter channel or a forum topic - is that different from joining a panel? I'm not sure, I don't properly understand it yet from what I've read, but I'm thinking the first level of involvement in a group will be asking questions and joining discussion, so I'd think a private (readable by all) mailing list or forum topic might help adoption. There may be other collaborative tools, or not, I'm not knowledgeable about that so recognise I'm not able to be very constructive in my comments.
Mitzi László
@Mitzi-Laszlo
@theWebalyst panels can use any communication channel including the ones you mentioned (mailing list , gitter channel or a forum topic) and there is no obligation to join a panel.
Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
Not to change the subject but, is there a reason that https://solid.community/robots.txt is private?
Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
I think the panels are a great idea because it allows the drilling down of specific topics, issues, documentation and direction without cluttering up other communications like chat.
I must say @theWebalyst the documentation that these panels create is amazing. Sort of like building a solid curriculum.
David H. Mason
@vid

FWIW, without decentralized linked data, email, chat rooms, comments, and even pages are basically not much different than what people used in the 1980s, we might as well be using dial-up BBSs (the 2019 level tech is behind the scenes working against the consumer). Git (like usenet before it collapsed) is a bit different because it is decentralized and works on a graph , but the interfaces to use it are very technical and it's prone to cause problems.

Git is effective because it requires rigour to use, which serves as a filter. But in this case it is being used, like the other forms, to produce transitory prose rather than articulated and finely reusable information.

There might be a discussion about what a solution and simplest implementation would look like that isn't copying BBS style media, that fully uses hypertext and decentralized, social linked data to allow people to finely subscribe to active topics, groups and people so that they can find information they need, discuss ideas, and participate in development without needing to use many different channels. Especially people who can't participate full-time in this specific project. That tool today is called google, but it uses guessificial intelligence and treats individuals as blobs.

The main thing I would propose is including easy, active and precise linking information as part of the communication system. An approach I have worked on before is a "spotter" which runs alongside the communication tool, and proposes links which can be accepted or shaped by community members as a participatory activity, so there are two levels, proposed and accepted, along with an information structure and curation system that is perfectly suited to linked data. I would pair this with a literate programming approach, which is again very suited to Solid since so much of the interaction is based in the browser.

That's in fact exactly what I've been trying to work on with Solid as a basis, but I'm torn between a few projects so it's mostly frustration. \:
Tim Berners-Lee
@timbl
"Git is effective because it requires rigour to use, which serves as a filter. But in this case it is being used, like the other forms, to produce transitory prose rather than articulated and finely reusable information.” — indeed
More apprpriate is perhaps soething like dokieli where one person at a time edits, and everyone can annotate
Tim Berners-Lee
@timbl
I feel we have a lot of tools with solid which we need to connect together to form solutions. Also we need to work on each one to get ot more polished.
David H. Mason
@vid

Dokieli is fantastic, but from what I know prose-document focused. A few projects are implementing linked data components, which allow choosing other pods or information sources, and that would be a basis of distributed project development. Original human text is important, of course, but can be a problem when it's overwhelming. There should be every opportunity and incentive to include dynamic well defined views. I'm doing this with components embedded in markdown (mdx), and smartdown has an implementation based on this approach as well. The embedded approach can help solve the polish issue, since people can embed components and focus on their own style.

One immediate outcome is the regular This Week in Solid bulletins could be largely automated, with curated queries from different sources. Embedding task tags across repos would allow a very fine overview of ongoing activities.

Mark Hughes (happybeing)
@theWebalyst
@Mitzi-Laszlo thanks. I was taking about the joining and finding out process - because it says to join a panel you submit a PR. Maybe you can join a channel before that? If so, perhaps add that to the info so the first step doesn't seem like coming a repo and creating a PR. To me that is unclear and onerous to discover compared to requesting an invitation to join a discussion group. Anyway, I've raised the issue.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@vid Seen https://dokie.li/media/video/dokieli-sparqlines.webm ? That uses a SPARQL endpoint with statistical linked data to build an inline chart in SVG. Some write-up at https://csarven.ca/sparqlines-sparql-to-sparkline
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
that is slick @csarven :+1: :+1:
Mike Adams
@mikeadams1
@csarven that is slick indeed! I am just getting into sparql, and linkeddata, and that Query engine is fantastic.