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Mitzi László
Tune into the monthly webinar Solid World next Thursday at 1600 CEST. The channel will open 15 minutes earlier for those who would like to meet other members of the audience. This month, as Solid community manager I will be giving you an orientation of Solid as well as a general mid-year reflection. Read more on the agenda and register via the Solid World July invite.
Iwan Aucamp
Is there some tabular formats for encoding RDF?
like some CSV standard for encoding RDF?
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@aucampia I'm not sure if there's a standard. You can store RDF as a table of subject, object, predicate, graph which could be serialised as CSV.
spoggy Iwan Aucamp (Gitter): could this felt your need https://scenaristeur.github.io/spoggy-simple/js-xlsx/
Iwan Aucamp
so you would have @id and @type columns
I'm thinking of just coming up with my own, basing it somewhat of JSON-LD
and then other columns headings would be would be <predicate_iri>|<predicate_type_iri>
or something
Iwan Aucamp
can I somehow validate RDF data against OWL?
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I wouldn't have it on JSON-LD as it's a dog's breakfast IMO (and not necessarily RDF compliant). Much simpler to use s, p, o, g. You could serialise that into JSON-LD of that's needed somewhere.
OWL isn't my area, but I think that's the purpose of it. There's a really good intro talk on validation using ontologies I could dig out. Not sure if it mentions OWL.
You might like to ask in https://gitter.im/linkeddata/chat
Iwan Aucamp
thanks Mark, I will ask there
melvincarvalho Mark Hughes (happybeing) (Gitter): JSON-LD is a tricky one. It was designed to do one of two things. Either extract RDF from JSON. Or be a serialization for RDF in JSON. In the end the spec went with the latter. 1.0 was a reasonably good approximation. But lacked relative URIs. That's largely fixed in 1.1 Is there anything you dont like about JSON-LD?
melvincarvalho I think 1.1. is quite good in terms or RDF. Happy to hear thoughts otherwise. What would have been REALLY nice is if JSON had had a native way to serialize a URI e.g. with angle brackets <URI> like we use in Turtle. I believe that was discussed too. But it's not native and would require transpiling. And transpiling is a pain. Would have made life a lot easier tho if that was native in JSON. In another universe maybe!
melvincarvalho My feeling is that there's quite a large proliferation of JSON-LD now in 2020. e.g. the fediverse. Used on many millions of web pages for SEO in data islands. More than in the past, anyway. Turtle still very popular in LOD.
melvincarvalho on the topic of rdf, cvs and JSON, I noticed something interesting yeterday
melvincarvalho this is the czech covid 19 data API
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
Melvin, I don't like looking at JSON-LD is my main objection, added to the point that something in JSON-LD is not necessarily RDF compliant. I don't know if it is good for particular things other than people already having tools for messing with JSON (but I think that's double edged because people will not realised what RDF is about if they drift from JSON to using JSON-LD.
melvincarvalho it has data in JSON, CSV and this other thing called "CSV Schema"
melvincarvalho the CSV Schema actually is JSON-LD or looks like it
melvincarvalho Mark Hughes (happybeing) (Gitter): turtle was designed for readability and for thinking in graphs. I really like it for that reason. It also has some nice properties such as allowing comments, and not needing a async lookup. The advantage that JSON-LD has over Turtle is that it has a native parser. JSON-LD is supposed to be RDF compliant. There was a lot of work to ensure that in the spec. Have you come across anything that isnt compliant?
melvincarvalho I guess it's possible to write JSON which is a super set of JSON-LD that's not RDF compliant. And that's probably much harder to do anything useful with in Turtle.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I read in the JSON-LD spec that it isn't necessarily RDF compliant (I think that's the word used). Turtle is as you say much nicer. JSON is ugly enough, but when I was learning RDF JSON-LD made things really hard to understand. I still haven't understood it because I avoid it :wink:
Today though I'm going to study a bit of Rust for a possible new side project related to SAFE. Rust is ugly in its own way :grinning:. I guess its mostly about getting used to something new, but some things are elegant and clarify things, while others get in the way.
melvincarvalho really interesting post that contributed to the birth of JSON-LD almost 10 years ago
melvincarvalho during the standardization process, it was a requirement to be compatible with RDF

melvincarvalho > One is to create a JSON serialization of RDF, capable of serializing all
the RDF concepts (anything Turtle will be able to), an optimized machine
to machine RDF transportation format. Most languages support JSON
parsing now, and that parsing is very quick compared to XML and formats
which require a custom parser (like turtle). Personally I see this as an
easy hit, feel it would be well worth doing, and to be totally

The second need is much more complex, to create a JSON format which
allows people to publish and work with linked/web data easily.

melvincarvalho I find that really interesting.
melvincarvalho JSON-LD as it is today addresses the first part
melvincarvalho I also find that 2nd part really interesting, given the growing proliferation of JSON as of today and the network effects around that
melvincarvalho Still not 100% solved
melvincarvalho JSON-LD doesnt work very well in solid right now. But IMHO given the network effect that has grown up around it, it's worth supporting.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I'm not convinced JSON-LD is a good thing overall. You can do stuff in it, but the JSON tooling isn't built for that, so you if you want to do stuff with RDF you're better off with a library that understands RDF in which case JSON-LD isn't helpful. It's not my area, but that's my impression. I'm a big fan of JS but I don't get JSON-LD.
Off to look for Rust stuff! I've been noticing your 'spux' updates and interested to see what emerges :smile:
Hope all's well.
melvincarvalho Thanks :) Back to CSV in RDF :
melvincarvalho http://www.w3.org/ns/csvw
melvincarvalho this was linked from the data set I noted above
melvincarvalho > The CSV on the Web Working Group was chartered to produce a recommendation "Access methods for CSV Metadata" as well as recommendations for "Metadata vocabulary for CSV data" and "Mapping mechanism to transforming CSV into various formats (e.g., RDF, JSON, or XML)". This document attempts to partially satisfy the "Metadata vocabulary for CSV data" recommendation by definin all terms used in [tabular-metadata].
melvincarvalho Iwan Aucamp (Gitter): might be helpful ^^
bjonnh You can use Robot to transform CSV into RDF using templates (does owl as well)
bjonnh (templates are included in CSV)
bjonnh Template | robot

spoggy > <@bjonnh:matrix.org> You can use Robot to transform CSV into RDF using templates (does owl as well)

Grappe is open source & Can Do conversion too https://youtu.be/xDzCk8Xpt3o



& source https://github.com/assemblee-virtuelle/Semantic-Bus

bjonnh sounds much more complicated to use
bjonnh have you used it?