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melvincarvalho Mark Hughes (happybeing) (Gitter): turtle was designed for readability and for thinking in graphs. I really like it for that reason. It also has some nice properties such as allowing comments, and not needing a async lookup. The advantage that JSON-LD has over Turtle is that it has a native parser. JSON-LD is supposed to be RDF compliant. There was a lot of work to ensure that in the spec. Have you come across anything that isnt compliant?
melvincarvalho I guess it's possible to write JSON which is a super set of JSON-LD that's not RDF compliant. And that's probably much harder to do anything useful with in Turtle.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I read in the JSON-LD spec that it isn't necessarily RDF compliant (I think that's the word used). Turtle is as you say much nicer. JSON is ugly enough, but when I was learning RDF JSON-LD made things really hard to understand. I still haven't understood it because I avoid it :wink:
Today though I'm going to study a bit of Rust for a possible new side project related to SAFE. Rust is ugly in its own way :grinning:. I guess its mostly about getting used to something new, but some things are elegant and clarify things, while others get in the way.
melvincarvalho really interesting post that contributed to the birth of JSON-LD almost 10 years ago
melvincarvalho during the standardization process, it was a requirement to be compatible with RDF

melvincarvalho > One is to create a JSON serialization of RDF, capable of serializing all
the RDF concepts (anything Turtle will be able to), an optimized machine
to machine RDF transportation format. Most languages support JSON
parsing now, and that parsing is very quick compared to XML and formats
which require a custom parser (like turtle). Personally I see this as an
easy hit, feel it would be well worth doing, and to be totally

The second need is much more complex, to create a JSON format which
allows people to publish and work with linked/web data easily.

melvincarvalho I find that really interesting.
melvincarvalho JSON-LD as it is today addresses the first part
melvincarvalho I also find that 2nd part really interesting, given the growing proliferation of JSON as of today and the network effects around that
melvincarvalho Still not 100% solved
melvincarvalho JSON-LD doesnt work very well in solid right now. But IMHO given the network effect that has grown up around it, it's worth supporting.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I'm not convinced JSON-LD is a good thing overall. You can do stuff in it, but the JSON tooling isn't built for that, so you if you want to do stuff with RDF you're better off with a library that understands RDF in which case JSON-LD isn't helpful. It's not my area, but that's my impression. I'm a big fan of JS but I don't get JSON-LD.
Off to look for Rust stuff! I've been noticing your 'spux' updates and interested to see what emerges :smile:
Hope all's well.
melvincarvalho Thanks :) Back to CSV in RDF :
melvincarvalho http://www.w3.org/ns/csvw
melvincarvalho this was linked from the data set I noted above
melvincarvalho > The CSV on the Web Working Group was chartered to produce a recommendation "Access methods for CSV Metadata" as well as recommendations for "Metadata vocabulary for CSV data" and "Mapping mechanism to transforming CSV into various formats (e.g., RDF, JSON, or XML)". This document attempts to partially satisfy the "Metadata vocabulary for CSV data" recommendation by definin all terms used in [tabular-metadata].
melvincarvalho Iwan Aucamp (Gitter): might be helpful ^^
bjonnh You can use Robot to transform CSV into RDF using templates (does owl as well)
bjonnh (templates are included in CSV)
bjonnh Template | robot

spoggy > <@bjonnh:matrix.org> You can use Robot to transform CSV into RDF using templates (does owl as well)

Grappe is open source & Can Do conversion too https://youtu.be/xDzCk8Xpt3o



& source https://github.com/assemblee-virtuelle/Semantic-Bus

bjonnh sounds much more complicated to use
bjonnh have you used it?
spoggy No but I know the dev that made me a demo, and it looks really friendly & cool, when you get the start to convert every data flux or file to another. I'll poke the dev to join if you want or you can ask him : @SimonL:matrix.org
Hello, I am Simon, the main developper of Sementic Bus. My english is very bad, sorry. This is an Saas Graph Oriented ETL. Grappe is the commercial deployment by Data Players. It is little more complexe than specific translator but much more flexible. input supported serialisation contains rdf/ttl/owl/json/json-ld/csv.... but output only support json/json-ld/xml/excel/csv. Other output sérialisation requiere somme development hours but it is possible and easy. All kind of transformation can be done betwen input and output.
By exemple this flow translate form result csv into LDP server (semapps base on fuseky)
slug of uri generated for each 5 type of subject considering unicity from data in column of csv
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
@melvincarvalho hey, have you read about AT2 (an innovative concensus mechanism that avoids the pitfalls of Blockchain)? Reading the following article reminded me of your tally system, and I wonder if the two would work on Solid. See 'Crypto-Twitter' half way down, although the whole article is very good: https://www.computing.co.uk/feature/4017118/at2-answer-cryptocurrency-energy-performance

melvincarvalho Mark Hughes (happybeing) (Gitter): just read the article. Lots of confusion about block chains. Everyone has a different definition and different use case. But in reality a block chain is just a chain of blocks. It was originally called the time chain. It's a 1 liner in solid:

<> <#blockchain> ( <#1>, <#2>, <#3> ) .

Should do the trick.

melvincarvalho That'll create a block chain. Which used to be called a Linked List before money got involved.
melvincarvalho It's actually a tree, and the consensus rule turns the tree into an ordered chain using a consensus mechanism. In bitcoin that mechanism is longest chain wins, so the chain that proves the most work will be the ordered chain. And it's hard to create a longer chain. Length means amount of work in this case.
melvincarvalho You can literally order things any way you want. Just put it in a solid pod is absolutely fine and will solve the double spend problem. Each consensus mechanism has trade offs. The advantage of bitcoin is that it's extremely secure. And that over time builds trust, and creates a reserve currency for the internet. It's actually about building trust via security. You can argue it's over kill, but boot strapping trust is really hard, and takes time. There's no evidence at all that other mechanisms will either build that trust, or offer any other innovation except making the founders lots of tokens.
melvincarvalho Ordering things on twitter is perfectly fine.
melvincarvalho Banks order the tx in your statements by running a queue. That's how modern finance works. It's a multi tennant block chain ordered in time. It's just that you have to trust the bank, which many are happy to do. Lots of people are unbanked tho.
melvincarvalho So you can solve double spend in solid quite easily, yes. A tally system is a layer above. What that allows is batching between parties who trust each other. They might trust a shared pod for example. That's a nice way to scale an underlying digital system.
melvincarvalho But I found more interesting in that article the use of CRDT. These are quite efficient data consensus methods which use neat tricks to keep things in sync. For example if two people are setting a bit, it does not matter in which order they set things when syncing up the different views. This is nice technology for achieving consensus, and lots of ways to do it. Eventually I suspect Solid will use some CRDT to keep pods in sync.
melvincarvalho tl;dr you dont need a lot of electricity to keep a chain of records in a certain order. Lots of ways to do this, the easiest would be sqlite (which you can even use raft with). Or solid. Or twitter. Creating money is a harder problem and has a different trust and reputation profile.
Mark Hughes (happybeing/theWebalyst)
I think this is why I never understood how your tally system could work without a validated chain of concensus, because without that you can create or modify it with impunity, and so double spend. This can work in some situations (we see it in community based time banks and so on) but doesn't scale. I know why banking works as it does, as you say we choose trust the bank and the bank has to play properly or it will lose reputation/business and become criminal in a way that makes it hard to avoid severe consequences applied through the market, regulation and criminal law. It also does go wrong at times as we've seen to catastrophic effect, as well in smaller instances where trust is maintained by the bank of the taxpayer stepping in to bail customers and shareholders out. One of the aims of bitcoin was to try and do without all that by creating a record that was validated through concensus which everyone could verify, but at a cost, and not really decentralised after all.
AT2 is important because it offers a way to do all this, and many other applications requiring concensus (that we've not even thought of because blockchain) to be achieved efficiently and fast, and at very high volumes.
Mitzi László
@/all Does anyone have any updates that you'd like me to include in this month's newsletter and mention in Solid World tomorrow?
Fred Gibson
@Mitzi-Laszlo we (graphMetrix) is planning to launch a commercial scale Solid Pod Server by end of July - We will both host pods on graphmetrix.net and allow others to run the server software on their own Ubuntu server. The Pod supports a full entity/identity/state/event model so all information is stored as it changes through time
Blazegraph is used for commercial scale pods
THere will be a free trial, pricing is still being worked on
We are calling it "Trinity Pod" as it includes inference using our AGI Trinity (Conceptual Computing System)