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  • Jan 05 16:19
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  • Dec 15 2021 20:19
    elf-pavlik commented #221
  • Dec 15 2021 20:18
    elf-pavlik commented #221
  • Dec 15 2021 20:17
    elf-pavlik commented #187
  • Dec 15 2021 20:17
    elf-pavlik edited #222
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    elf-pavlik commented #187
  • Dec 15 2021 14:04
    elf-pavlik edited #222
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    elf-pavlik edited #221
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
@justinwb should we just use the pad created for last week? https://hackmd.io/iVlburEVSRmhFxAtjtmAsw
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
:+1: :+1:
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
@justinwb @ericprud I wrote a strawman proposal for delegation chains in solid/data-interoperability-panel#222
It pretty much focuses on how register delegation upstream could work.
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
@justinwb @angel-araya-jd I wonder if today we could take time during the morning meeting to discuss Authorization Agent Service functionality. I updated janeirodigital/sai-js#26 capturing some of it
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
:+1:
can you make a pad and add that to agenda?
i can also give a quick intro to sai-java
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
If there is interest I could also share a short update about work in Solid-OIDC to introduce UMA Authorization Server
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
yes!
that’d be great
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
:wave:
Pretty open agenda - i can give update on sai-java / shapetrees-java implementations
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
We had an interesting conversation with @matthieubosquet during AuthZ panel meeting. We plan to focus next week's meeting on reconciling AuthZ work done there and here.
Towards the end of the meeting, I was admitting that work in Interop may not cover 100% of use cases, but it focuses on 80% prioritizing ergonomy for Application developers. As well as addressing data discovery by social agents and applications.
@justinwb what do you think about putting together a short 10min presentation to show how we see reconciling the work? I could prepare a diagram showing different roles and which responsibilities would fall on each role. This would already include the Authorization Server we are introducing in Solid-OIDC.
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
@elf-pavlik happy to do that - are you thinking that presentation would be next weds?
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
Yeah, as long as we are able to make it happen.
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
I started taking some notes in https://hackmd.io/Q4Q47efkShOPz0540Q1YBg
We could possibly discuss it today.
It also includes initial list of conformance classes with list of requirements f or each class
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
cool - i’d also like to talk a bit about base resource classes that readable / crud / immutable can extend from
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
:+1:
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
@JulietteCarter would you like to share next week an update on work happening at BBC? As we get to implementing the Authorization Agent service we could take it into account for what to prioritize. I also believe in parallel we could collaborate on Shape Tree definitions that would come useful in the use case you work on.
Probably we should again keep implementation talks limited to Wednesdays and Tuesdays dedicate more time for real-world use cases from participants. This would also help us catch any possible gaps in the spec.
Juliette Carter
@JulietteCarter
yes I’d be happy to give a quick update! We’re not using any interop tooling at the moment due to them still being in developement but of course the hope is that we can switch to using them in the future
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
:clap:
Wouter Termont
@woutermont

Also, when talking about data registries, I believe @elf-pavlik pointed out a preference for having only 1 such registry per storage. What is the rationale behind that? If, as was also said, the 'where' should be mostly abstracted from for the user, isn't a more fleshed-out idea of data registries (carrying metadata such as label and description), of which there can be any number anywhere, precisely a way to achieve this abstraction?

Just realized I posted this in the authz chat as a follow-up on the authz panel meeting, but might be more appropreiate here ...

Justin Bingham
@justinwb

I believe @elf-pavlik pointed out a preference for having only 1 such registry per storage. What is the rationale behind that?

there’s no technical reason that this has to be the case, just considered a best practice as we aren’t yet aware of scenarios where there’d be a benefit to have multiple data registries on the same storage. that said, there’s nothing in the spec and shouldn’t be anything in any of the implementations that would break or function abnormally if there were multiple data registries on the same storage

ultimately what matters is what is linked to from the RegistrySet of the Social Agent (https://solid.github.io/data-interoperability-panel/specification/#datamodel-registry-set) via hasDataRegistry
Wouter Termont
@woutermont

Thx, @justinwb! So if the main reason for considering this a best practice is not knowing why it would be a (good) practice at all, let me elaborate what I tried to hint at.

In @elf-pavlik's diagram, Kim has a two data registries, each in a separate storage: work.kim.example and home.kim.example, intuitively labeled so to separate work-related data from non-work-related data. However, in practice, I think it's more probable that Kim has either:

  • one work-related registry hosted by her company at their storage server (e.g. kim.datacomp.net) and one non-work-related registry hosted at some personal storage provider (e.g. kim.mystorage.eu); OR

  • both the work-related and the non-work-related registries on a single personal storage (kim.mystorage.eu), and a very trusting company ;-)

The first case works perfectly fine with the current definition of a data registry. The second one, however, would need some more metadata: since they are no longer just 'your data in storage XYZ', how does an app visualize them to the user? With some minimal extra metadata, such an app could for example (visually) distinguish "My Work Data" from "My Personal Data", and even let the user change those labels.

Or am I placing this kind of functionality where it is not meant to be?

Justin Bingham
@justinwb

Or am I placing this kind of functionality where it is not meant to be?

I think you’re on the right track - and probably correct that registries need some added metadata. Generally there’s a need for us to establish a classification scheme that can be used (we believe) for registries but also possibly for data itself. we imagine some kind of tagging scheme, but the devil will be in the details. we’ve put it off until the foundation was laid - but this is now probably the right time to resurface it :slight_smile:

@woutermont if you’re able to join next week’s session we can add this as a topic
Wouter Termont
@woutermont
:ok_hand:
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik

I think you’re on the right track - and probably correct that registries need some added metadata.

:+1:

However, in practice, I think it's more probable that Kim has either:

  • one work-related registry hosted by her company at their storage server (e.g. kim.datacomp.net) and one non-work-related registry hosted at some personal storage provider (e.g. kim.mystorage.eu); OR
  • both the work-related and the non-work-related registries on a single personal storage (kim.mystorage.eu), and a very trusting company ;-)

I think we should support all those variants

BTW who owns kim.datacomp.net, Kim or the company? In other words, if its Kim's sovereign storage or company's storage for 'Kim department' (can be one person department) which isn't consider sovereign from company.
To work with really general scenarios I would like to include cases where a person does various freelance work as well as working part-time in multiple companies. If we handle that we most likely handle simpler cases.
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
I will not be able to join the meeting. I guess I will see some of you on Wednesday during the implementations meeting :construction:
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
ack @elf-pavlik
@/all does anyone have an important topic for today’s agenda? if not we can give everyone an hour back this week and pick it up next
Eric Prud'hommeaux
@ericprud:matrix.org
[m]
i thought we could use the time to talk about @elf-pavlik behind his back
ericprud:matrix.org @ericprud:matrix.org conscientious about @mentioning people when talking about them behind their backs
Wouter Termont
@woutermont
No specific topics, @justinwb. I do have a list with some interop spec related questions somewhere, if you would feel like going through them. If not, I can ask them here to possibly enlighten other people as well.
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
@woutermont could you create an issue (or discussion) for each question and we can answer them in there (so we can link to them later) - and then discuss live next week?

i thought we could use the time to talk about @elf-pavlik behind his back

:laughing:

Wouter Termont
@woutermont
Perfect!
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
@woutermont no pressure to do them all at once whatever order / cadence you like :slight_smile:
elf Pavlik
@elf-pavlik
i thought we could use the time to talk about @elf-pavlik behind his back
elf-pavlik @elf-pavlik will be ready for his ears (or was it the nose) to burn, while he will be driving at that time :ear: :wink: