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    csarven commented #224
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Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
that requires some effort at least
and you know which domain it is coming from
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter

So W3C (Sir Tim, no less) turned down the opportunity to host the JS standard because they felt the web should be declarative-only. Imagine a declarative-only web today.

"Javascript: the first 20 years" https://buff.ly/30TpkPu (Brilliant article in a brilliant journal!)

https://twitter.com/technosophos/status/1273614442874445825?s=20

Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Are they cases where either one (or both) would be preferable for servers to share request error details with clients: i) in response body ii) link relation using ldp:constrainedBy with target URI identifying the constraints?
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
does ldp:constrainedBy have anything to do with errors?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Server is supposed to include that header in 4xx responses.
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
oh really? is that from LDP?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
How it can be used in Solid: https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/44#issuecomment-647554318
LDP doesn't specify the details for the representation. In fact, it doesn't even need to be in RDF. In Solid, I think we are leaning on having the details in RDF.
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
q+
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
q-
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
OK https://github.com/solid/specification/issues/28#issuecomment-648109864 . That's clear enough for me.
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
I think this PR on how constrainedBy can be used in Solid is a good start solid/specification#185 . If there is nothing out of the ordinary for the rough consensus, can we get that merged?
For Problem Details (client error), we can do another PR once we have more specifics on the message schema.
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
@csarven what's the pain point that #185 solves?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
It was for issue solid/specification#44
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
I think it would fall under the UC here: https://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#dfn-uc1 -- access guidance, https://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/#dfn-nf1.1
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
@csarven I guess my main question is, why is it a MUST?
(given that we don't have need for this yet, don't have vocab to define how to constrain or what to constrain, etc)
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@dmitrizagidulin For the constraints defined in the Solid spec, that's not much of an issue because whatever is defined in the spec will be common to all servers and clients in the ecosystem.
In the case of a response body describing the problem details, yes, it;d be necessary provide the vocab. That's covered in solid/specification#28
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Even just making it possible to describe the problem details can help clients without necessarily having prior knowledge of the vocab.
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
I think what might help me is an example
because as an implementer, I'm looking at that spec text, and it says a server MUST advertise constraints, and I'm thinking.. what constraints? In what cases? and how do I express them?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Say server denies an update. It can return 409 and link to the spec constraint saying that server doesn't allow client to update containment triples.
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
so what's an example of that?
(so that I know what to return on a 409)
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
With this specific example, it'd be https://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/#ldpc-put-mbrprops
(or whatever the URI is in the Solid spec)
Dmitri Zagidulin
@dmitrizagidulin
I see, thanks
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
@csarven i had commented on the ticket but do you assume shape validation falls into this bucket
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Not sure about exact categorisation. There are similar concepts in play but I'd say that SV is possibly a specific kind of a constraint (ie. linked via constrainedBy). Besides that, constrainedBy can handle HTTP, authn/z based constraints, in addition to data.
Comes back around to what I've asked several times about the relationship/diff with solid:shape...
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
@csarven are you good for session today?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Yea.
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
:+1:
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
solid/specification#187 is an important one. Reviews would be great and super helpful.
Justin Bingham
@justinwb
will do!
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@acoburn Noted your preference. Just want to be clear that the PR captures the rough consensus - and there was quite a bit of gaps/unknowns all around DELETE (as you know from the issues).
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
@namedgraph_twitter Do you use acl:accessTo with 1 or n?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
Do you use acl:default ? Can a resource inherit an ACL instead of having its own?
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
you mean acl:accessTo with one or multiple values?
as a general case multiple
we don't use acl:default
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
How about own ACL or inheritance?
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
what do you mean with "own ACL"?
Sarven Capadisli
@csarven
When a resource is deleted, do you clean-up eg. remove an associated ACL?
Link rel=acl foo.acl
or however you associate - data level.
Martynas Jusevicius
@namedgraph_twitter
we mostly use acl:accessToClass