These are chat archives for supercollider/supercollider

15th
May 2017
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 01:29
@patrickdupuis sorry, not a linux user so i don't have much to say about that
update: @bagong I think I've accomplished 2/3 goals
globbing is now working just fine. I will have to compare it to old behavior--I think it used to be that directories returned by globbing would have a terminal \
but that is all trivial, the basic mechanic is there
I also added the codepage conversion header I was talking about
i've changed over usage to that. I know there's one place where I specifically needed the string-to-string conversion but I can't seem to find it at the moment
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 06:01
@patrickdupuis , yes I got that you were building with portaudio api enabled. I was just surprised that that allowed working with pulseaudio, is misremembered. There was an equiry the other day asking for pulseaudio support, and one could've told the enquirer that it is enough to build with pa rather than jack backend. BUT:
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 06:12
It's definitely a totally untested usecase, it has not been supported at all, or well, in the past, and there are most likely some issue that would require to go into the SC code. When Hanno back then inspected the question it actually looked like there might even be issues with ALSA itself (pulseaudio also builds on alsa). Try listing devices and setting the server to them via server options. I think you'll find that some don't work. This is quite definitely not something trivial to work with, and I'd ask: what is your/our goal when dealing with this? Among old users there is no interest in using portaudio/pulseaudio, it's simply considered non-pro with respect to latency. So not much support to expect from that side. When the Sonic Pi people came the interest was obvious: ease of use had a higher priority than low latency. Hanno went quite a few ways to understand the problems better, enquiring among portaudio people and, and at some point facing the view that there actually might be a ALSA issue portaudio can't get around. Maybe that was why he dropped out, or maybe he just lost interest in Sonic Pi.
If you say "you just need to kill Pulsaudio" to run with ALSA directly, I think that is what people would actually want to avoid. That's why I said no additional configuration requirements. So if one wanted to get this to work, I think the goal would be to get it work well with pulseaudio. I have no idea what that would imply and which technical limitations would result from that as given by pulseaudio.
So I think the basic question: what is your goal? Replacing jackd is out of the question. If creating an alternative I think there are some choices to make and you want to chose among them.
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 06:36
Maybe that alternative portaudio version dedicated to pulseaudio is an attempt to solve some problems in pulseaudio support... But it's not ready yet as far as I can see. And trying that would mean to build portaudio as well, and not to use the packages provided by your distro.
@brianlheim , unfortunately a build error on Windows. I'll post it in the PR, okay?
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 06:49
@brianlheim , one thing seems quite important to me, and I am not sure if it's already part of your system: detecting plugins in include folders. Are you working that in and it wasn't just ready in that old build?
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 07:06
@brianlheim , searching the closed PRs for keyword standalone will give you a list containing 4 or 5 prs by which the different levels of old and new implementation can be distinguished quite safely.
I think #1021 , #1189, #1863 and #1872 are most useful. Anything not touched there would be belonging to the old broken implementation and must by now be considered cruft.
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 08:55
You won't meet resistance when you remove the old implementation. The old guys don't realize how broken and tied to the old editor/bundle it is. A new implentation of similar feature would be easy if you finish your plan to make all folders configurable for all SC components under a single roof. And it would be crossplatform (well, Linux had to be revisited, I am not sure there because of the high degree of system integration). The other question rightfully mentioned in that sc-dev thread is that a full, even branded standalone would require the old sclang menu function to be revitalized. That's why Scott Carvers PR is so important for some. But I think this is something you really don't need to bother about in your PR. I see your PR as the foundation that among other will allow the old standalone to be reimplemented in a better, more flexible and cross-platform way. Maybe one thing you want to keep in mind is allow for the application folder name, which atm is hardcoded in many places to "SuperCollider", to be configurable too.
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 10:35
As to detecting plugins in any include folder: that should make merging sc3-plugins and quarks into 1 really simple...
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 11:24
@patrickdupuis , you might want to have a look here:
https://app.assembla.com/spaces/portaudio/git/merge_requests/3719213
It might help to understand portaudio problems on Linux better. Also there is talk of a "pulse-audio-portaudio"-bridge. Tbh, I don't have a good model to understand how portaudio comes into the mix, when pulseaudio and alsa interact.
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 12:48
ok! some of these changes are going to be in later PRs, i think, but i agree with all of them
standalone junk i will definitely get rid of
plugins in include folders requires some additional architecture changes to do it the way i want
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 13:16
Great!
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 15:09
@brianlheim , not sure if this is already the time for it, but in case, here the output of the post-window in the current stage:
https://gist.github.com/bagong/dc4b7a06696a4506c89440fe65753893
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 15:10
debugging code :)
i just wanted to make sure it was stepping through directories correctly
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 15:11
Yea, not sure what you expect with help...
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 15:13
it'll get better :)
oof, i need to check out supernova too. travis is continually failing on it
Rainer Schütz
@bagong
May 15 2017 15:16
Yea... hopefully that won't be too hairy.... It also has it's totally own plugins folder ways... Most is hardcoded. That has produced a few user irritations too.... For now I'm not able to build supernova with msvc...
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:00
@brianlheim i've posted my test results for #1944 in the thread
People want to drop JACK for various reasons (justified and not)
Currently, it is not possible to use SC reliably on linux without it
Experimenting with ALSA as a back-end might be worthwhile for getting SC to run easier on embedded linuxes
I'm not an embedded linux sound person. I don't know if there is a device out there that really can't run SC with JACK.
The Bela platform is something else
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:06
thanks @patrickdupuis !
like i said i'm not a regular linux user (yet) so i have very little to say about it
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:06
No problem. What should we do with the ALSA/PulseAudio issues that exist on GitHub?
You'll come around :)
to the dark side...
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:07
i've been planning to install ubuntu on my external
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:07
No....!!!!!
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:07
last time i tried i ended up trashing a 900 GB partition
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:07
Ubuntu makes me sad
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:07
ha what would you rec?
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:07
Ubuntu Studio
not ubuntu itself
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:07
mm
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:08
or KXStudio which is either Debian based to Ubuntu
or Ubuntu based i mean
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:08
i'm not really planning to do any audio stuff with it
other than develop SC
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:08
It's good to test on Ubuntu
not work audio in it. But, that's my biased opinion :)
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:09
lol
ubuntu studio looks like bloat to me for what i want
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:09
yeah, not for a test system
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:09
i'm sure it's very useful for "creative" people lol
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:10
who has time to create anyway?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:10
i'm also working with about 100-200 GB of disk space
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:10
more than enough for a linux os
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:10
and i wanted to put multiple linuxes if possible
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:10
my HD is only 120gb
20gb is minimum
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:10
but i think i may have already hit the partition limit for this HD
i didn't realize such a thing existed
i wanted 20000000 1-byte partitions
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:11
nope
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:11
for maximum parallel processing
jk
maybe i'll just go with arch
w/e
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:11
is that a FAT HD?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:12
yus
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:12
I have a EXT4
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:12
multiple filesystem formats on the same disk is what led to my aforementioned issue
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:12
Oh... what issues were those?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:12
i have to have a FAT partition for win10
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:13
and you need win10 for work?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:13
basically i tried to do some partition cleverness from macOS and it decided the whole disk was now a different filesystem
i need win10 for SC dev
and for solidworks
maybe
if i ever go back to that
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:13
that kind of stuff is complicated. I only install one OS per HD
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:14
well if i had more HDs I'd do that too
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:14
ok, that's good for us. I'm surprized at how many students I see that use Windows.
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:14
i have a 2TB backup/archive drive and this 500 GB WD passport
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:14
SC wasn't really an option for them until recently
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:14
and i am definitely not touching my 2TB partitioning scheme
ohh
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:15
it's good to focus more dev time on Win
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:16
macOS and linux are both POSIX so it makes it slightly easier to cross-develop
slightly
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:16
If you can get your hands on a used machine, it would be good enough for linux testing
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:16
ah
well we have a couple devs that are available to test on linux (james, nathan)
so it's not as dire
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:17
nathan is on what distro?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:17
rainer and a few others do dev on windows but not as frequently
not sure, i think ubuntu studio
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:17
that's my impression
james and nathan are both testing Ubuntu variants
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:18
hm i guess they sell hard drives for like $18
i could get a shit one maybe
i was thinking about trying to install linux on my flight to austin this week
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:18
If you have room, why not?
do you have wifi on the plane? most installers expect you to download packages while installing
if not, make sure you download some wifi firmware on a USB stick before you leave
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:19
oh duh right
nvm i forgot about that
i just prefer to have a brick anyway
eventually i think i'd like to switch over to linux completely
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:20
Debian 9 will be released relatively soon. could be good to test SC dev work on the new stable
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:20
it seemed less possible before i started using vim
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:20
vim is great!! just started learning
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:21
otherwise with xcode / vs / etc there's so much technical debt
i have been using it for about 5 months
i'm getting better with buffers
ctrl-p was a big help
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:21
yeah, still far away from being confortable
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:22
i don't think you're ever meant to get comfortable
lol
well nvm
obviously that's not true
this article was very helpful for me
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:22
the learning curve is steep at first
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:23
basically it's "find your own damn workflow"
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:23
im just using it for basic editing for now
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:23
:)
what do you want to use it for eventually?
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:23
i think picking a task that you always do in vim and them progressively add more
i'd like to be using it for most stuff eventually, like even writting my papers in LateX
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:24
ohh yeah that's good!
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:24
maybe vim org mode?
I hear org-mode is great, but emacs only
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:25
huh interesting
so, i have been using it while working through a C++ textbook
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:25
which one?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:25
and that's been great because I only needed minor text editing and snippets at first
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:25
exactly
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:25
but now i'm working on 6-8 files at once, using a makefile
and so i had time to get comfortable with more basic things
Accelerated C++
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:26
you are leaning C++, or improving your skills?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:26
it is exceptionally good IMO for anyone coming from a more intermediate level in other programming languages
well i "learned" C++ by hacking together solutions for an algorithms class last semester
I know C very well
so it was that kind of thing
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:27
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:27
this book is exactly what i needed
very anti-"C++ as new C"
they don't cover pointers or arrays until ch 10
are you looking for a C++ textbook?
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:28
no, I have one
wait...
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:29
oh yeah that was what I was gonna suggest lol
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:29
I haven't looked at it in a while though...
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:29
C++ coding standards by sutter/alexandrescu is also very good
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:29
it's good!
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:29
you gotta keep it up!
:P
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:29
for sure, I wish I have something to learn C++ with
a project
I need to learn by doing
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:30
well, there's supercollider
lol
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:30
sure!
but were should I put my focus?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:30
IDE would be good IMO
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:30
I need the right sized challenge
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:30
that is the only truly modern C++ part of the codebase
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:31
isn't that Qt?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:31
yep
so it would requiring reading up on that too
but Qt and Boost are kinda the big C++ libraries
so it's definitely good to know them
but yeah maybe too much at once
but i think you'll have to learn a new API no matter what
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:32
I know working on the IDE would be good
Qt is a good thing to know
I also want to work with HTML5 and Rust
not SC related
but in general
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:33
ok :)
why rust?
just curious
also not C++ but if you want, this is a super easy one, just adding a recordingsDir method to Platform to match all the other functions like it
supercollider/supercollider#2713
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:37
Cause Rust is a growing language that is as low level as C/C++ and is used for web stuff
thanks for the recommendation
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:38
np
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:38
i'll look at it
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:38
ok!
yeah, i guess i was just wondering, because you said you are looking for a project
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:39
absolutely
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:39
do you have some long-term goals in mind as far as career/projects go?
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:39
well sort of
i'm starting a master in composition next september
i dont compose
I write code
:)
I,m planning on doing more NIME stuff
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:40
ah ok!
where are you starting if you don't mind me asking
i also have an MM in comp :P
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:40
at Universite de Montreal
in the electroacoustics department
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:41
cool!
i think you said that before
sorry
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:41
np
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:42
hmmm yeah i can see why you would want to use a low-level lang then
for embedded
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:42
career wise I think I want to have my musical projects with my partner in crime katelynclark.com
and do web developement
and live in the pacific northwest
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:43
++
++
++
very nice
so yes i have different goals haha
i want to work full time as a software dev
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:43
:)
cool!
in what field?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:44
machine learning / systems programming
we'll see
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:44
machine learning like TensorFlow?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:44
yeah
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:44
cool for SC
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:44
and possibly deep learning too
i'm focusing on basics right now
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:44
you should look into Rust for systems programming
:)
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:45
patching up some holes in my CS background
hahaha
see that's the thing
C++ is a much better career choice
to focus on
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:45
yeah, i know
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:45
of course i don't want to be a specialist
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:45
and you can learn it if neede
needed
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:45
mhm
in a few weeks/months I want to do a language learning sprint
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:46
what other languages?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:46
i got this from a c programming book i read
program these 4 problems:
  • all combinations of characters of an input string
  • 8 queens problem
  • all primes lower than N
  • matrix multiply
originally assignment was to do it in C, APL, Lisp, and Fortran
and I'm going to do that
but also do a second round using higher level languages
/ more modern
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:47
8 queens is a good one. It's used in the Lua Programming book.
Matrix multiply is also usefull in audio work
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:48
Rust, Go, Python, Swift
basically i wanted to do it in every language that i've heard of that i don't already know
lol
and the other catch is that you have to do it in a week
so it's more of a "get as far as you can"
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:49
why lisp and fortran though?
or APL?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:49
historical depth
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:49
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:49
fortran is still used
i found that out like a month ago
hahaha
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:49
i know, mostly in like engineering
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:49
yep
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:49
fluid dynamics
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:50
it is sometimes faster than C with idiomatically written code mainly because of the pointer aliasing issue
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:50
dunno
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:50
basically the compiler can assume certain things about memory locations that it couldn't otherwise
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:51
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:51
also after working for a year in a semi-web dev position, i learned that i hate web dev
lol
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:51
you have to be carefull with that stuff in C
HA!
maybe I will too
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:51
i mean it's mostly been HTML and css
but i guess i should look at javascript and ruby
ugh
the internet is a terrible invention
nah i think a lot of people like it
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:52
it's brough about a lot of good and bad
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:52
haha i was just kidding
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:52
im still not certain if it has been net positice
positive
I get it :)
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:53
ah
yeah that's a fair statement
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:53
l also tent towards the negative side of things
it would be interesting at some point to get your advice on the web dev work
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:54
sure! you can email me
although frankly i think it is really just that different things matter to me
or interest me rather
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:55
I'm not cetain what the work market is like really
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:55
ha dude i don't know either
this is very much a temp position for me
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:55
yeah, i've been through changes also
ok :)
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:55
:)
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:55
used to be a doublebass orchestra person
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:55
ohhh
i used to be a pianist :)
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:56
then i left music for 9 years to do library work
now im back at music with a more computer based approach
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:56
ahhh fantastic!
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:56
want to do software dev work
it's all wierd
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:56
dude if you're really interested
well wait
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:56
just do what you feel like doing at the moment
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:56
nvm
forgot you're on linux
yes, exactly
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:57
what about linu?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:57
a friend and i have a swift project
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:57
linux
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:57
but i don't think swift compiles reliably on linux
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:57
swift is open source now
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:58
music notation, nice!
isn't nathan also into that?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:58
yeah. it's rehearsal-oriented
yeah, his project is nCoda, but it's more composer-oriented
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:58
reheasal-oriented?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:58
yeah, like it's like if performers could use a .sib file to perform from
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:59
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:59
basically
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 17:59
so for performance, or to notate ideas in rehearsal?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 17:59
the idea is to give performers tools to make learning & rehearsing easier
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:00
thats interesting
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:00
they can change notation systems and styles on the fly
so like flip between traditional notation and frequency-spectrum view
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:00
oh...
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:00
or (more helpful) control things like tuplet notation and beam notation
and open up other player's parts alongside their own
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:00
are you thinking more mixed music?
like electronic and acoustic sounds
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:01
there's a motivation to make it completely abstracted from traditional notation
in the same way lilypond is
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:01
since it's a swift project, you are planning on making an App?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:01
the idea is to support basically all time-based media which are notated left-to-right
yep, an iPad app for performers and possibly a desktop application
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:02
open source? cross-platform?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:02
MIT license
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:02
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:02
dunno bout platforms
lots of people use ipads for performance
so that's the main focus
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:02
yeah, they sometime fail unfortunately
im foing a gig with a pianist who uses an ipad
first time she's trying
I hope for the best
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:03
well, technology gets better. we're pretty much at the limit of paper-based technology
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:04
yeah, i think the issues are often bluetooth foot pedals
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:04
oh yeah for sure
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:04
the pages dont turn when in a hall with lots of interferance
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:04
i think this app is also designed to allow auto-turn as well
it can be synched with electronics
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:04
people forget that a rehearsal space isn't a real concert test of this stuff
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:04
and ideally send out its own OSC triggers
that's why it got funding from IRCAM
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:04
sounds cool
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:05
james has a very exciting vision
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:05
so you think swift is a no-go for linux?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:05
actually i just looked and they do offer tarballs for ubuntu
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:05
sounds like its being developped with real aplications in mind which is good
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:06
ooooh xcode 8.3 is out!
yeah
i feel ambivalently about most music software out there tbh
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:06
I know I Technical Evangelist at Apple. He would be so happy if i did any work with swift
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:06
not just stuff in development but in general
but i am very interested in what james is trying to do
hahah
well
james has been kinda spotty lately
but i wanted to start back up with this this summer
and i know he's going back to IRCAM again to work on it
so it'll be hopping
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:07
oh... it's IRCAM funded?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:08
well, harvard, ircam, and UCSD have collectively paid about $100k for him to work on it at this point i'd wager, hahahaha
it's all he's doing in his comp degrees
ircam is trying to get him to interface it with antescofo
which is whatever
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:08
That pretty sweet for him
ircam is wahtever
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:09
hahah exactly
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:09
:)
im in a very ircam-y school
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:09
yeeeep
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:09
but things are chaging fast
I had a course in OpenMusic last semester
almost lost my mind
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:10
lol
never used it
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:10
works well in linux though
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:10
hey really sorry but i've really got to get back to work
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:10
the main issue with IRCAM is that work gets funded and then they own it
ok!
good talking!
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:10
yes exactly ^ but james is insistent on MIT license
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:10
good!
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 18:10
yah good talking! email me later if you want :)
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 18:11
cool
talk to you later
Nathan Ho
@snappizz
May 15 2017 19:40
never worked with openmusic. is it any good
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 21:15
It's been around for a while, so there are some god libraries for it (some paid).
good
it depends on what you want to accomplish
I hear that BACH for Max is getting to the point where it can replace OM in most cases
I would learn from it and then create my tool to suit my needs rather than base my work on OM
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 21:24
There's also PWGL
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 21:57
i have a friend who uses bach / max for all his pieces
he's a columbia u student
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:07
Goeff Holbrook?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:20
louis goldford :g
*:)
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:30
ok :)
can I ask about this recordingsDir issue
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:30
shoot
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:30
Should Platform have both a class method and an instance method for this?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:32
i would say yes, because it makes the interface complete
and because i have seen at least two people complain about it on the mailing list
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:32
ok, so the class method is correct as is?
the instance method would be
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:33
yep! it's just a handle to the instance method
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:33
recordingsDir { something }
other methods have tings like _Platform_resourceDir
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:35
honestly if i never see the word "Dir" as an abbreviation for "directory" ever again i will be so happy. it sounds so bad in my head when i'm reading code
yeah, those are calls to C++ primitives
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:35
Deer or Durrr
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:35
durr
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:35
is there a primitive called _Platform_recordingsDir?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:35
nope!
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:36
ok
so should I write this.subclassResponsibility?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:36
it's trivial to construct, you just append Recordings to one of the other main directories, i forget which one
no, it behaves the same on all platforms
each platform has a different meaning for user app dir or whatever, at the c++ level (that's actually what i just rewrote in my filesystem pr)
but the behavior "take that and add the string Recordings" is cross-platform
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:39
I have to add something to PyrPlatformPrim.cpp
right?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:39
if you want to make a primitive for this, yes
but i really don't think it's necessary
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:40
I just need to use one that exists and add "Recordings" to the end of it's path?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:40
that's already done in *initPlatform
er sorry initPlatform
instance method
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:42
i see
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:42
recordingsDir = this.userAppSupportDir +/+ "Recordings";
:)
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:43
so recordingsDir { this.recordingsDir }
im getting there...
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:48
recordingsDir { recordingsDir }
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:49
sorry, i'm not sure what you're trying to do
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:49
what would the instance method be?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:51
the instance method already exists :)
it's generated by declaring var <>recordingsDir
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:51
ok
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:52
which means that the instance methods recordingsDir and recordingsDir_ are autogenerated as the getter and setter
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:52
so i don't need to add anything more to Platform.sc
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:53
that is correct, nothing more than you've already added :+1:
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:53
ok :)
next thing...
what do you think of the help file?
seems like it has alot of duplication, but maybe it's all necessary?
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:54
haha
it is a lot of duplication yeah
well yes i think it technically is
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:54
i'll just keep
it
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:55
because all those methods exist and if you ctrl-d on the instance method, it's going to jump to what looks like an undocumented method otherwise
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:55
yeah, goos point
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:55
even though the class method with the same name is documented
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:55
good
im going to push my changes
Brian Heim
@brianlheim
May 15 2017 23:56
ok!
i'm gonna do some yoga
Patrick Dupuis
@patrickdupuis
May 15 2017 23:57
sounds good!
enjoy :)