These are chat archives for synrc/n2o

6th
Nov 2017
natewilly
@natewilly
Nov 06 2017 01:55
^Agreed. Erlang seems like such an underrated tool for so many things web. The problem is solid documentation for the frameworks that could make use of it. It's awesome that a team of people here decided to make a framework that people could share, but if you guys can't step by step explain every feature of this framework (or at least link to external thorough documentation) to someone who presumably knows only Erlang, html, css, and javascript, then it's not going to get any traction. You either need a large community of people who can help newcomers, or documentation that is as solid as FreeBSD documentation. This project has neither, so I can't see it being used in a production environment. I'm afraid I'm going to have to move on here.
That's my two cents.
Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 03:01
If you want to contribute to doc, please welcome!
I don't know much English, give me an discount :-)
BTW we have a new MQTT version of N2O
I highly encourage you to use MQTT, even for Web apps
natewilly
@natewilly
Nov 06 2017 03:59
I have a question: why the push away from html templates?
I like html templates. They are easy to read and control.
natewilly
@natewilly
Nov 06 2017 04:05
You guys need an engineer who can speak English and tell them how everything works. The people who could use this the most speak English.
Preferably someone who speaks both Russian and English.
Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 05:00
Thanks, Cap!
How about contriubute instead asking ? :-)
why the push away from html templates?
Did you read all the information about N2O ?
I think you haven't read anything
Please investigate more deeply before asking stupid questions
Zelphir Kaltstahl
@ZelphirKaltstahl
Nov 06 2017 07:36

I don't mind so much the change away from HTML templates. I would like to write some examples and tutorials (also for myself to remember in a year or two), but I cannot get a simple hello world from scratch working, much less anything that makes a good tutorial : (
But I am just going to hope for the best. No insult intended here. I just hope someone will be able to update the n2o book and to write it without missing detail. If there is any update in the book, I'd be willing to test it again and see if I can get anything to work. You can think of me as a newbie in Erlang things, who read only part of the "Learn you some Erlang" book (half maybe). So I guess I am a good example for someone with not too much experience, who can be a measure for how complete a tutorial is : )

I don't think there are many "stupid questions" one can ask here though. The linked tex files are for the n2o book right? If I remember correctly, I read the book from the beginning, but still could not get examples to work :, (

Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 08:56
bash-3.2$ git clone git://github.com/synrc/n2o
Cloning into 'n2o'...
remote: Counting objects: 10360, done.
remote: Total 10360 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0), pack-reused 10360
Receiving objects: 100% (10360/10360), 6.34 MiB | 112.00 KiB/s, done.
Resolving deltas: 100% (5986/5986), done.
bash-3.2$
bash-3.2$
bash-3.2$ cd n2o/samples
bash-3.2$ ./mad dep com pla rep
==> dependency: "git://github.com/uwiger/gproc" tag: {tag,"0.6.1"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/rest" tag: {tag,"2.9"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/evanmiller/erlydtl" tag: {tag,"0.8.0"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/nitro" tag: {tag,"2.4"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/mad" tag: {tag,"1.9"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/sh" tag: {tag,"1.9"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/fs" tag: {tag,"1.9"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/active" tag: {tag,"1.9"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/avz" tag: {tag,"4.4"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/n2o" tag: {tag,"4.4"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/extend/cowboy" tag: {tag,"1.0.1"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/ninenines/cowlib.git" tag: "1.0.0"
==> dependency: "git://github.com/ninenines/ranch.git" tag: "1.0.0"
==> dependency: "git://github.com/synrc/kvs" tag: {tag,"3.9.1"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/tim/erlang-oauth" tag: {tag,"v1.6.0"}
==> dependency: "git://github.com/sile/jsone.git" tag: {tag,"v0.3.3"}
==> "gproc"
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_monitor.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_info.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_init.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_dist.erl
Line 23: warning {undefined_behaviour,gen_leader} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_dist.erl"
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_lib.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl
Line 379: warning {deprecated,{crypto,rand_uniform,2},
                              {rand,uniform,1},
                              "a future release"} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl"
Line 605: warning {deprecated,{crypto,rand_uniform,2},
                              {rand,uniform,1},
                              "a future release"} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl"
Line 1076: warning {deprecated,{crypto,rand_uniform,2},
                               {rand,uniform,1},
                               "a future release"} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl"
Line 1088: warning {deprecated,{crypto,rand_uniform,2},
                               {rand,uniform,1},
                               "a future release"} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl"
Line 1097: warning {deprecated,{crypto,rand_uniform,2},
                               {rand,uniform,1},
                               "a future release"} in "/deps/gproc/src/gproc_pool.erl"
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_bcast.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_pt.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_sup.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_ps.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc.erl
Compiling /deps/gproc/src/gproc_app.erl
Writing /deps/gproc/ebin/gproc.app
==> "rest"
Compiling /deps/rest/src/rest.erl
Compiling /deps/rest/src/rest_app.erl
Compiling /deps/rest/src/rest_sup.erl
Line 4: warning export_all in "/deps/rest/src/rest_sup.erl"
Compiling /deps/rest/src/rest_cowboy.erl
Writing /deps/rest/ebin/rest.app
==> "erlydtl"
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/erlydtl_parser.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/po_generator.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/sources_parser.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/po_scanner.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/blocktrans_parser.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/i18n_manager.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/blocktrans_extractor.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/i18n/blocktrans_scanner.erl
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/erlydtl_runtime.erl
Line 3: warning export_all in "/deps/erlydtl/src/erlydtl_runtime.erl"
Compiling /deps/erlydtl/src/erlydtl_filters.erl
Line 529: warning {deprecated,{random,uniform,1},
                              "the 'random' module is deprecated; use the 'rand' module instead"} in "/deps/erlydtl/src/erlydtl_filters.erl"
Line 534: warning {deprecated,{erlang,now,0},
if you can't put three commands into the shell, and if you have no culture to send feedbacks as Issues with logs, then you probably should leave trying n2o :-)
Screen Shot 2017-11-06 at 10.56.16 AM.png
Please google how to ask and communicate in open source communities :-)
How you think I can help you, if you can't provide proper feedback?
If you are unable to run n2o/sample you can hire from this room anyone with $30/hr :-)
Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 09:01
Guys, anyone, would like to help this Sir?
Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 09:09
Screen Shot 2017-11-06 at 11.09.08 AM.png
I did everything was stated in the book
try update Erlang to latest I don't know
I need FEEDBACK :-)
Zelphir Kaltstahl
@ZelphirKaltstahl
Nov 06 2017 09:33

(Not sure you realize the "tone" that comes across in some of your messages, considering you already mentioned English not being mother tongue.)

  • What I found personally missing in the n2o book is not that I cannot clone an example and run that, but that the book does miss information on where to put certain snippets it shows. You of course already know this stuff. I don't want to clone stuff with a lot of code already put in, which does who knows what, but want to be able to put things together from scratch.
  • Keep in mind that I tried to use multiple Erlang web frameworks until I gave up for now, so my experiences with them sort of merge in memory and I might mix things up. Fact remains that I could not use any of them to do what I wanted because of the state of examples and docs.
  • I built Erlang from source, after finding out about Ubuntu packages missing vital parts. That is another thing many stumble over and might give up on using it.
  • I am not here to hire anyone, and I don't see the need for it. Either something is well documented so that software developers not familiar with the Erlang web stuff can learn it, or it isn't. If something is not really understandable, I don't see the need to hire someone to do it. This is beginning to sound like Microsoft certifications for microsoft server stuff. I find statements like:

you can't put three commands into the shell, and if you have no culture to send feedbacks as Issues with logs, then you probably should leave trying n2o :grinning:
Please google how to ask and communicate in open source communities :grinning:
If you are unable to run n2o/sample you can hire from this room anyone with $30/hr :-)

Offensive. Really. Me leaving will not improve anything. In fact it will stop improvement, because I cannot go on nagging you guys about documentation.

I am often trying new things, frameworks, languages. So I am used to learning new things out of curiosity. Still I could not manage to use n2o or other Erlang web frameworks.

Please just take a look at the following video, which explains in a bit more detail the issues with many Erlang projects:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MvKLOecT1I

This is unfortunately what in my experience is true for Erlang web frameworks such as n2o as well. I really hope the docs become more precise in the future and this is the only advice I can give at the moment.

Namdak Tonpa
@5HT
Nov 06 2017 10:42
I don't give a fuck
Please leave the channel
Don't waste our time to your bullshit
Sébastien Saint-Sevin
@seb3s
Nov 06 2017 12:00
My feelings on these :
Namdak has been very helpful to me to understand intrinsic of n2o and be able to cope with it. The doc exists and even if some parts may be out of date, you are required to UNDERSTAND what you read. So please take a breath and THIINK.
I could not believe anybody is not able to find where is located a sys.config file for instance.
Sébastien Saint-Sevin
@seb3s
Nov 06 2017 12:05
So even if it requires you more than 5 minutes to put everything in place in your mind to be able to use it properly, that's time correctly spent !! Keep in mind that N2O team is very small and they already did a great job providing lots of documentation.
The rest is in the code.
Regarding the language, I'm neither english native (french) and If you find sometimes Namdak or others to be rude, don't be offended, I think they are quite soft and patient with us here :-) Be an adult and don't take it personally.
That's my 2 cents on this.
Zelphir Kaltstahl
@ZelphirKaltstahl
Nov 06 2017 21:46
Uhm yeah I am sure now I don't like your tone. With this kind of attitude your horribly documented software will never be adopted. This just confirms the video I linked, thanks for showing your true face to newbies in the Erlang community. (Note: it does not need people like you and you are very uncharacteristic for helpful open source communities, very atypical, so maybe you are the one who should learn about how to act in such community. Or maybe don't and stay ignorant for the rest of your days and insult people!)