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AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
I would propose conservation of energy as a principle
maybe more accurately conservation of information
perhaps we can allow control loops to "pay the cost" of travelling great distances by purposely introducing noise proportional to distance
no "mind-reading" no "teleporting"
Andrew
@walpolea
maybe, I don't think limiting the raw senses fits there though, how that sensing translates to action for sure. It's like, we don't turn off our ears to conserve brain bandwidth... well maybe we do, but that's more like attempting to overclock.
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
If that was a reply to conservation of energy, I wouldn't suggest that as a good strategy for survival
Andrew
@walpolea
I guess I'm assuming (again fresh with Michael's paper in mind) that the tile should be more like a living machine, than a traditional one, even if it does have an on/off switch.
which is an idea that doesn't feel like it's been talked about either way
maybe expand on conservation of energy/info - are you talking at the tile processing level, or on the grid, atomic space?
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
I have a situation in mind but it would take some setting up to explain
It assumes there's a tile world and an outside environment.
The tiles should not gain access to perfect information of the outside world
They should only see what they could perceive if we imagine they had eyes
If we send a message to all tiles, instantly we are short-circuiting the distances inside the model.
So if I give a T2-tile a cookie, they should get exactly 1 cookie to share, Not 20.
Andrew
@walpolea
absolutely. I imagine the tiles as being sensory appendages - eyes (camera), ears (microphone), touch receptors, tongue/nose? And the grid could act as the nervous system connecting up to these appendages to receive the signal.
maybe we differ on the cookie analogy. If I give the tile a cookie, it should chew on the cookie, and into the tile goes lots of cookie bits that can be received while consuming it.
the time for consumption = 1 cookie
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
We definitely don't differ there.
My 'formalish' explanation was terrible but the cookie analogy is where I'm getting at more.
Andrew
@walpolea
I see what you're saying, if I have 1 cookie to give, it shouldn't translate to 20 tiles each getting a cookie
makes sense
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
the essay is pretty interesting so far. Another point I had thought of is about composability.
We can stick two machines together, but we can't so easily do that for living machines.
living "machines" ^w things
should MFM i/O be "composable" like a traditional machine or more like the senses?
Andrew
@walpolea
I guess define composability? I feel like if I can see you and you can see me, are we not composed?
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
I imagine if we used the serial ports heavily we could hook the tile i/o into anything. It's very convenient but not super life-inspired in that way
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
I think I have to admit it's the most obvious way to do it, maybe you should work on developing the visual approach a bit more. I'd like to see more of the QR codes especially :D
Andrew
@walpolea
yeah, this was a good discussion, output sounds like the first bit to prototype, get the tile grunting.
which is a bit novel, given that we often create machines to impose our input upon them, I like the idea of starting with output, the grid giving the commands.
Andrew
@walpolea
I ordered an esp32 + camera module, we'll see how far I get!
Luke Wilson
@l2wilson94
good luck!!
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
nice,
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
I want to get into FPGA gently
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
kidding, this is too complex
Dave Ackley
@DaveAckley
@walpolea I can't believe how cheap this esp32 stuff is! I look away for just a couple years and..
Andrew
@walpolea
right, and especially with libraries like espruino, has made it a super accessible platform to get into.
Dave Ackley
@DaveAckley
Yeah. Working on a possible demo for hyperspace, thinking of trying an ESP32 in it.. We shall se.e
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
Dennis Lucero
@striderssoftware
That is so cool
Dave Ackley
@DaveAckley
Andrew
@walpolea
interesting, not fully sure what I'm looking at, but it seems like each "site" is actually a "tile" or at least communicates more like ITC would. But doesn't seem asynchronous...?
Dave Ackley
@DaveAckley
Yeah, I can't really tell what's going on or how scalable the architecture is. But the intercell (?) connections seem to be framed in message passing-terms so it might be asynchronous-adjacent anyway..
Murilo Polese
@murilopolese

Woah! So long since I came here last time! :sweat_smile:

@jteitelb I share the feeling. I talk with a lot of people about living computation foundation and the t2tile project but most of them can't think about installing MFM in their computer, thinking about coding in ULAM is a stretch... @walpolea's mfm.rocks is a huuuuge step! But still no "defining rules", which is ok but I believe being able to create your own rules before relating with other people's rules are a very important step in learning. I have dedicated myself to research how to bridge this gap through interface on http://splatycode.bananabanana.me/ and more recently I thought there is a step even before where people get acquinted to the idea of programming a cellular automata. This is a problem I tried to deal with before with http://colorcode.bananabanana.me (new UI sketch here murilopolese.github.io/vms/colorcode/v6/).

For the second half of the year I'm thinking about teaching both SPLATy and Color Code on a coding camp. Last week I gave 2 quick SPLATy workshops (for adults) and people really loved it! I think the more people get literate in celular automatas, not only placing on a grid but defining the rules, the more we'll have people joining the conversation about living computation!

Yeah. Working on a possible demo for hyperspace, thinking of trying an ESP32 in it.. We shall se.e

Yes! I think of ESP32 all the time for a hardware host! The other way I got in a conversatio with a friend thinking about the potential for building things in three dimensions as this friend pointed out that most biological features rely so much on the three dimentionality of the cell arrangement.

Murilo Polese
@murilopolese

Hello! Yes a codecademy style thing would be a great idea

Woah! This is a very cool idea!

murilopolese
@murilopolese:matrix.org
[m]
Oh cool! I can join this from the element.io / matrix.org !!
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff

http://murilopolese.github.io/vms/colorcode/v6/

I'm enjoying this very much @murilopolese!

1 reply
AJ Zaffetti
@ajzaff
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