These are chat archives for typelevel/general

7th
Nov 2015
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 09:06
One thing I'm missing is: where is NEScala going to be in 2016? Boston?
I've just invited @bmc to this channel.
I'm very keen to get this moving ahead.
Do we think that this channel is the best place to organize the event?
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 09:13
Aside from a personal interest in avoiding an overlap with Scala Matsuri, I think we should make strenuous efforts to get representation from that region to come, which won't happen if there's an overlap.
I 'd also like us to give some up front thought to things we can do to encourage diversity ... IME if it's left to the last minute it won't happen.
Brian Clapper
@bmc
Nov 07 2015 12:39
NEScala will be in Philadelphia this year. We’re still zeroing in on an exact date. (I’m negotiating with venues now, in fact.) But we’re shooting for late February or early March.
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:29
What are people's thoughts about timing? Is late Feb/March too far out?
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 13:29
btw, i only sugggested philly b/c of nescala :)
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:31
It's a good suggestion. Am I right in dimly remembering that we first announced Typelevel at NEScala a couple of years ago? In Philly? @non? @larsrh?
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 13:32
iirc, last nescala in philly was when you had a laptop issue and presented natural numbers on a borrowed laptop with a german keyboard
Brian Clapper
@bmc
Nov 07 2015 13:33
NEScala was last in Philly in 2013. I recall a talk about Shapeless at the time. Typelevel may have been a year later, in NYC. But I’ll readily admit I could be completely wrong.
We’re pretty committed to a Feb./Mar. timeframe for NEScala. We had lots of internal debates about timing, with all the other conferences people want to attend hampering our ability to just flip a coin and choose a date.
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:34
I think that probably works.
There's a pretty good overlap between people who want to participate in Typelevel and people who want to participate in NEScala.
And if you've juggled with all the other conference dates that saves us from having to do the same.
Brian Clapper
@bmc
Nov 07 2015 13:36
Personally, I’m not averse to a 300-person cap on NEScala (as opposed to our usual 200-person cap). Much above 300, though, and the character of the conference changes, and we’re adamantly opposed to that.
The other problem, of course, is that much above 200, and it becomes difficult to find an affordable venue.
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:36
I'm encouraged that you think a Typelevel summit would bust the 200 attendee limit :-)
Brian Clapper
@bmc
Nov 07 2015 13:37
I’m just responding to the “it’s hard to get tickets to NEScala” comments, above. :-)
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:37
Ahh ... gotcha.
Brian Clapper
@bmc
Nov 07 2015 13:37
…which is not to say that Typelevel wouldn’t bust the 200 mark, mind you...
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 13:38
General question to the channel? Does anyone want to stick a finger in the air and guess how many people might seriously consider attending?
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:09
I have no basis for this, but if it’s attached to NEScala and is talked about outside of typelevel circles such as this one , I could see 100+ people showing up for it.
Erik Osheim
@non
Nov 07 2015 14:11
yeah i would have guessed 50-100 myself. idk
anyway i have to drive 6 hours to a wedding now, talk to you all later :)
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:11
enjoy, @non
Erik Osheim
@non
Nov 07 2015 14:12
💒🚗🌳
thanks
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:12
yeah 50-100 sounds reasonable
@milessabin I wouldn’t think we should try to go any earlier than this
it would be tough to get something around in time and for people to have time to make travel arrangements etc
@milessabin and +1 for up front thought to diversity
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 14:15
I've just tweeted a poll ... soon we'll have accurate numbers.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:16
you kids and your fancy technology
I had forgotten you mentioned 2 days as opposed to one. I don’t know if I would expect 100+ people to be there for two days
but I could certainly be surprised :)
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 14:21
I think we should aim to make it possible for people to usefully attend either one of the two or both. In which having the slight wider window to hit maybe more people will be able to attend.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:23
A typelevel summit would be a good place to announce Cats 1.0 :)
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 14:43
WRT up front thinking about diversity ... does anyone have any suggestions? As a start we can invite a people we think would be interested to join this channel to participate in organizing.
I'm wary of doing anything which would suggest that we're inviting people in to do the work we should be doing ourselves though.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 14:47
I think we absolutely need to be willing to do the work, but that we should seek out resources and guidance
also, I would be willing to donate toward funding travel expenses for people from underrepresented groups who would like to attend. I imagine some others would be willing to do the same, and hopefully some businesses.
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 14:49
Definitely, I would too.
Owein Reese
@wheaties
Nov 07 2015 14:52
I can look at some corporate sponsorship for this too
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 14:52
:clap:
Owein Reese
@wheaties
Nov 07 2015 14:52
We did the dinner last year at NESCALA
Sorry for the late comments, I got a little one who is fussy atm
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:23
Might be useful to start accumulating goals/topics/questions/todos/etc. Empty repo and issues/comments to track?
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:24
@tpolecat that sounds like an excellent idea to me
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 16:25
:+1:
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:25
Someone else will have to do it, I can't write to typelevel ;-)
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:26
nor can I. I just hang around typelevel folk and pretend I’m one of the cool kids.
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:27
@ceedubs actually this is one of the things i would like an answer to ... what does it take for my projects to be affiliated, and what does it require of me?
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:28
I was just thinking that this would be a good topic for a discussion at the session
I still don’t think I quite know what typelevel is. I just know that some libraries and people that I really like are associated with it.
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:28
Yep, yep.
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:29
yep
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:29
and for example, it seems a little curious to me that specs2 is on the typelevel project page, but in Cats we are using scalatest
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:29
Right.
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:30
i’d rather the project list be an opinionated version of awesome-scala than imply some type of political affiliation
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:30
Sigh. Gitter notifications are kind of funny. I get none, then like 200 in a row.
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:30
not saying it is the latter now, but the lack of clarity certainly leaves the latter as a valid interpretation
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:31
@mpilquist yeah, but whose opinions? it's tough
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:31
getting close to governance :)
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 16:33
I have been thinking about a more beefed up version of awesome-scala that tries to fill the gap for baffled beginners trying to choose libraries.
As opposed to adding a version of X to stdlib, forall X, as some seem inclined to do.
Blah. Gotta run. This is super exciting. Glad to see some chatter in this channel.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:39
If there does continue to be a group of typelevel libraries, I think that it should be something where they are committed to being compatible with each other. So at any given point you can be on a recent stable release of any/all of these libraries you want without needing to worry “Cats laws depend on Scalacheck x.y, but Monocle laws depend on Scalacheck x.z” etc
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:40
reminds me of the eclipse release train stuff
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:41
uh oh that doesn’t sound like a good thing
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 16:41
haha didn’t mean to imply anything by that
eclipse is a good case study in modularity though, as there are a few hundred modules with many different teams working on them
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 16:44
I can picture an alternative, where Typelevel is just a group of people who are interested in providing a supportive community for FP in Scala.
and isn’t really tied to any specific projects
other than that active members of the Typelevel community would work on some projects
I think this latter view is probably the one that appeals to me most
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 17:20
I think that "what is Typelevel?" should definitely be a topic for the summit.
As should governance.
I think Erik's Scala World talk says pretty much everything I would want to say, beautifully clearly.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 17:23
I’ve seen Erik’s talk, and I think it says a lot of great things about building a community around a project, but I guess I don’t feel like I know what Typelevel is after seeing it.
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 17:24
What Erik and Lars and I had in mind at the outset, was an association of people and projects which emphasized typeful functional programming combined with a conscious effort on outreach and to increase diversity.
I'm not particularly shy of being labelled as "political" personally, but I don't want it to get in the way of other people participating, so long as it doesn't compromise on core principles.
I think we pretty much have to agree that there is an especially severe problem with diversity in our corner of technology, that that's a bad thing, and that we'd like to make deliberate efforts to do something about it.
"deliberate efforts" is deliberately vague, but I don't want it to be empty.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 17:27
I 100% agree with that
but I guess from looking at http://typelevel.org/, I probably wouldn’t realize that’s what typelevel is about
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 17:28
I agree.
Michael Pilquist
@mpilquist
Nov 07 2015 17:32
:+1:
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 17:32
BTW, Underscore are happy to sponsor as well. @noelwelsh @davegurnell and @d6y have had some experience trying to improve diversity at Scala eXchange in London this year and last ... we should be able to draw on their experience.
Who needs to be added to the Typelevel organization? @tpolecat? @ceedubs?
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 17:35
Well, I’m not sure I should be in it yet, as I’ve spent the last hour asking what it is :P
great news on Underscore btw!
Miles Sabin
@milessabin
Nov 07 2015 17:36
Well, yes, but it's a perfectly reasonable question, so I don't think that's a blocker :-)
OK, @tpolecat and @ceedubs added.
Cody Allen
@ceedubs
Nov 07 2015 17:47
thanks @milessabin
InTheNow
@InTheNow
Nov 07 2015 20:19
Count me in :+1:

I'm not particularly shy of being labelled as "political"

Phew, at least that "grey" area has been cleared up :wink2:

How do I/we get banana-rdf added to TL?
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 20:31
@InTheNow i think that is one of the questions we need to answer at the summit … my desire is that the affiliated libraries be principled, open, and approachable but all of those are open to some interpretation. seems like a central question
InTheNow
@InTheNow
Nov 07 2015 20:33
Well, I already have a project on TL, happy to add more ASAP :)

group of typelevel libraries, I think that it should be something where they are committed to being compatible with each other.

See TypelevelDeps.scala

Adelbert Chang
@adelbertc
Nov 07 2015 22:02
I may have missed a response to this, but one concern I do have about attaching this w/ NEScala is difficulty in getting tickets :-)
am interested in attending though
also we totally need Typelevel shirts :P
InTheNow
@InTheNow
Nov 07 2015 22:27

also we totally need Typelevel shirts

If it's not functional, it's not worth a fork

Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 22:42
A textile that's a printout of some huge type that's thousands of lines long, then have suits made out of it.
InTheNow
@InTheNow
Nov 07 2015 22:43
yeah, forget my daft idea, that's the way to go :)
Rob Norris
@tpolecat
Nov 07 2015 22:43
or something incorporating the phrase "That entry seems to have slain the compiler."