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    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    ahh nice :-)
    the signup.. yes!
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    regarding the labels, what would make most sense for the case:
    rdfs:label          "Process specification"@en ;
    rdfs:label          "process specification"@en ;
    rdfs:label          "Process Specification"@en ;
    I would tend to the 2nd option, because it can be converted to the others, if needed, but can be integrated into a sentence as is. The other two options make sense for a button label (1) and a title (3), right?
    I find the argumentation rather week though.
    In german, this question does not pose itself, as nouns are always capitalized.
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn

    Good question. The only thing we have used the labels for so far is for diagrams.

    Without having a strong opinion, I lean towards the third for classes because using in a sentence seems like it might refer to the class, not the concept in general? And for properties, all lower case?

    But I'm very open to suggestion on this, I don't feel like I have anywhere close to enough experience to answer. I'd be interested in any info on what people generally do in rdf. @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg @elf-pavlik [Answering inline because it seems I couldn't at-mention in a reply.]

    @almereyda I pinged you in an issue too, can you help with the problem mentioned above: getting a 404 when trying to sign up in the gitlab instance? It would be much appreciated!
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    ahh very good reasoning! Let's go with that.
    In the worst case, changing it later is not too much work.
    I am already working on the TTL (the labels, so far), and saw an inconsistency in the properties:
    Three of them have hyphens in their identifier, like vf:deliver-service, while all the others use camel-casing, like vf:onhandEffect.
    Is it still possible to change that, as you said, nobody uses the RDF as of now?
    and yeah.. such questions would be better placed in an issue, so I am fine with having to wait for the account first.
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg an idea: if you send me your email (you can create a private gitter chat here or send to info@mikorizal.org), I will invite you in gitlab and we can see if that works
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    @fosterlynn: sent you an email. thanks! :-)
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    there is also an other minor issue with the VF RDF:
    The way it uses external properties is not the preferred way, as you are redefining properties of the external properties. better would be, to create a new property that derives from the external one, and (re-)defines that properties property.
    more info here:
    https://discuss.rdf.community/t/modifying-external-subjects/157
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    Thanks, will check it out!
    happysalada
    @happysalada:matrix.org
    [m]
    Hi, first of all, thanks for this great framework! Just started reading about it and I really like it
    I can only second @ho
    hoijui: here in that it would help I think, if people could freely make an account to contribute
    is it because of spam and bots that making accounts is blocked?
    (closed and needing a human action)
    also, setting up your own instance of a git repository (using gitlab or gitea for example) is not necessarily that hard. Would it not make sense to keep the repo at the same domain
    something like git.valueflow.ws
    just a thought
    happysalada
    @happysalada:matrix.org
    [m]

    Also a separate question
    what is the state of the project?
    I see a definition of a common vocabulary
    is there an implementation yet?
    is there something being used by organisations?
    Is there a product or something that gathers funding for sustainability of the project?
    Just wondering
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    In our organization, we have the same problem wiht our own gitlab instance, and the admin said, he is already working on allowing to login/create an account with a github.com or gitlab.com account. that prevents the spam problem. of course itis not nice to rely on those two i nthe long run, but might be an option.
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    I think it makes sense to use/depend on each others resources. in this case, VF not needing its own admins, or less of their time. Also, once this problem is resolved, it will be solved for everyone using the gitlab instance of allmende.io.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen

    @happysalada:matrix.org

    what is the state of the project?

    See https://valueflo.ws/introduction/status.html

    I see a definition of a common vocabulary
    is there an implementation yet?

    The first implementation was the graphql API in https://github.com/FreedomCoop/valuenetwork/tree/master/valuenetwork/api

    Next: https://github.com/LearnDeepMilwaukee/overview

    Two new implementations are in progress:

    is there something being used by organisations?

    https://freedomcoop.eu/ is using their API, linked above.
    https://learndeep.org/ intends to use theirs, but their software is not ready yet.

    Is there a product or something that gathers funding for sustainability of the project?

    Each of those software projects has some funding, but none for Valueflows the vocabulary project.

    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    VF has had a lot of contributors come and go and then often come back again and go again, but gaining value all the time. The constant maintainer has been @fosterlynn with a little bit of help from me.
    So in other words, not enuf energy to maintain VF-hosted git repos...
    But the maintainer of our current gitlab instance is a VF contributor.
    Reason for no self-registration: spam.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    More current projects using VF mentioned here:
    http://mikorizal.org/updated-future.html
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    And yes @happysalada:matrix.org we fully agree on people being able to make their own accounts in the gitlab instance. This was true for some time, until the spam forced allmende to shut it off. It's a hard problem, I hope we can resolve that in some way, and I'll make the suggestion from @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg in the issue, while still agreeing it is not the nicest option.
    happysalada
    @happysalada:matrix.org
    [m]
    Thanks a lot for the precisions, let me check some of those links and come back to you!
    samrose
    @samrose
    @fosterlynn @bhaugen I am exploring using an RDF implementation of ValueFlows what is left to do in the vocabulary work to publish a working RDF ontology?
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    @samrose thanks for your interest. @fosterlynn is the lead on Valueflows and knows a lot more RDF than me but her mother died last night so she will be pre-occupied for awhile.
    I wonder if we can get some advice from @elf-pavlik - he knows RDF better than any of us but has been otherwise occupied for awhile. Pavlik? Got any advice for Sam?
    We do want to have a working RDF ontology again.
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn

    Hi @samrose I'll be in and out here for a few days. The owl spec is the "system of record" for VF. We have said we would maintain RDF feed here https://w3id.org/valueflows#. But nobody has wanted it yet, and we haven't implemented it. Is that what you are looking for? And/or are there other things that would be needed to "publish a working RDF ontology"? Eager to make this happen, and to see an RDF based implementation.

    Another thing to keep in mind: The VF namespace covers most of what is needed for a "complete" working ontology for economic activity, but not all. This page https://valueflo.ws/specification/external-terms.html has the other elements, because we decided to re-use where we could. And they are all on the UML model with namespace noted https://raw.githubusercontent.com/valueflows/valueflows/master/release-doc-in-process/ValueFlowsUML.png.

    happysalada
    @happysalada:matrix.org
    [m]
    @fosterlynn my condolences.
    elf Pavlik
    @elf-pavlik
    Hello friends :wave: Lately I've been focusing most of my time available participating in various panels from https://solidproject.org/
    I haven't been checking updates to VF vocab but I could try catching up and understand changes made in last months (probably years)
    In Solid Interoperability Panel we use data shapes quite heavily (one of the participants actually leads https://shex.io/ effort) I think writing up some data shapes might help implementations a lot. While RDFS definitions, for example rdfs:domain and rdfs:range, don't restrict anything only lead to additional statements being inferred. ShEx Triple Constaints provide a clear way to define valid set of values. One could think of it as JSON Schema for RDF.
    3 replies
    @samrose could you share little more details with regards to what your implementations will use vocab definitions for and if you would find useful to have data shapes to complement the vocab ?
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    @elf-pavlik really good to "see" you! :wave:
    hoijui
    @hoijui:fabcity.hamburg
    [m]
    in case it never works out with me getting an account at allmende, i uploaded my commits on gitlab.com:
    https://gitlab.com/hoijui/valueflows/-/tree/rdf-hoijui
    3 replies