Where communities thrive


  • Join over 1.5M+ people
  • Join over 100K+ communities
  • Free without limits
  • Create your own community
People
Activity
    neonfuz
    @neonfuz:matrix.org
    [m]
    benedikt_seidel: I am interested in hearing more details, I read what you linked and a few more documents on the github etc. It looks like a very exciting project
    neonfuz
    @neonfuz:matrix.org
    [m]
    lynnfoster: Thanks! Like I mentioned earlier I worked on some accounting software that was compatible with REA, so hREA has been on my radar. I like svelte a lot too, I think it's "next gen" in the sense that it has some major benefits over the major competitors, so it's a good choice
    Jeremy Boom
    @jeremyboom8_twitter
    happy new years valueflowers!
    bhaugen
    @bhaugen:matrix.org
    [m]
    Thanks, @jeremyboom8_twitter and the same to you. How/what are you doing these days?
    lynnfoster
    @lynnfoster:matrix.org
    [m]

    Ditto! And to everyone else too!

    btw, I rather like being a valueflower, so thanks! 🌻🌻🥀🥀 (whether you meant that or not.....)

    Adam Burns
    @vortex:zorro.free2air.net
    [m]
    Adam Burns
    @vortex:zorro.free2air.net
    [m]
    But referenced on page 87, appendix interview with Bob & Lynn seems to be missing? "In the same direction, ValueFlows poses as a collective effort to capture and
    systematize these learnings and work towards the creation of a set of common
    vocabularies to describe flows of economic resources of all kinds within
    distributed economic ecosystems. A concise overview of these developments
    is presented in the Appendix, offered by Bob Haugen who, along with Lynn
    Foster, is one of the key engineers of REA implementations."
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    lynnfoster
    @lynnfoster:matrix.org
    [m]
    Yeah, that appendix was left off by mistake (?), Michel asked that it be fixed at the time, but apparently that didn't happen. Sorry about that. Also note that there are broken links at this point, but those can all probably be found in the VF doc.
    lynnfoster
    @lynnfoster:matrix.org
    [m]
    Another note, for people interested in this area of work: We're having discussions with a group interested in "ecological accounting", which includes Bill McCarthy, to fine tune the model and definitions to work towards a consistent way to use REA/VF in the context of climate change and other ecological disasters in the making - accounting for externalities, including interconnected ecosystems beyond the human one, etc. We hope to have something to share soon.
    Jeremy Boom
    @jeremyboom8_twitter

    Thanks, @jeremyboom8_twitter and the same to you. How/what are you doing these days?

    thanks Bob!

    Ditto! And to everyone else too!

    btw, I rather like being a valueflower, so thanks! 🌻🌻🥀🥀 (whether you meant that or not.....)

    thank you! haha yeah i thought afterwards it should've be 'valueflowser' but valueflower is definitely better imo 🌻

    Jeremy Boom
    @jeremyboom8_twitter

    Another note, for people interested in this area of work: We're having discussions with a group interested in "ecological accounting", which includes Bill McCarthy

    wow sounds exciting Lynn! look forward to reading/hearing more about it when possible

    jane zhang
    @janezh_gitlab
    Great option for solving Hulu error code-3&39: https://videosolo.org/hulu-error-code-3-and-hulu-error-code-39-solutions
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    @elf-pavlik hi! Ping me if you have some time to help me a bit with w3id.
    Nick Meyne
    @nmeyne
    Hi there! Nick Meyne from the coop credentials 'consortium' here https://coopcreds.com/ ... just reaching out to say we're working on W3C Verifiable Credentials as a foundation for identity and trust among coops (principle 6 co-operation.. economic, social, ethical, environmental and so on) The REA model is great for envisaging and structuring ecosystem exchanges that we hope to enable with our work on privacy-respecting identity for cooperative ecosystem actors. I love the work you are doing here with Valueflows and the rigour of the ontology and clarity of explanation. Thank you! We're looking at trial use cases at the moment... I'd love to apply some REA / VF pattern thinking to classify and validate the coming work. Any links to handy templates / tools would be welcome.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Welcome @nmeyne ! I'll study Co-op Credentials a bit today. May have some questions later. And we are always interested in trial use cases! To find handy templates and tools, it would help to have at least a very rough idea of what kinds of use cases you might be thinking of?
    Nick Meyne
    @nmeyne
    @bhaugen thanks for the welcome! There are som broad ones that we are looking at for a potential use case... mainly the 'mutualisation' of KYC processes across a co-operative ecosystem... where co-ops operate a system of mutual trust that reduces the cost and friction of membership ...and economic interaction see https://coopcreds.com/the-problems/ And then at a more detailed level there are the specifics for a couple of our member Co-ops Resonate and FairBnB.coop wanting to establish Stay Fair Play Fair, which involves a number of possible economic interactions:
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    @nmeyne yay P6! Would this be helpful in terms of thinking about templates/tools https://write.as/economic-networks/how-to-model-resource-flows-in-networks ? If not, don't worry, we'll work with you to find the right direction. And we're always happy to work with people directly on a specific use case, as always "the devil is in the details". :)
    Nick Meyne
    @nmeyne

    “Stay Fair Play Fair” used Co-op Credentials to help FairBnB.coop and Resonate work together to promote sustainable, fair and ethical music touring and tourism:

    Co-op credentials would be a way of ensuring a FairBnB guest is member of Resonate or vice versa. This identity verification could support the following scenarios:

    Guests might be attracted to stay with Fairbnb.coop if offered a more authentic experience from participation in community-rooted independent music.

    Local Artists might find new listeners. Fairbnb.coop will reference and link to Resonate player and community and feature local artists and venues

    Fairbnb.coop local co-ordinators could connect with local artists and curators, help establish listener accounts and drive greater earnings for artists.

    The Resonate Player and Community Forum / Artists’ Circles could feature invite links to Fairbnb.coop lodging offers in communities associated with Artists (home towns or touring locations).

    Nick Meyne
    @nmeyne
    Thanks Bob and Lynn! That doc looks very helpful and succinct. Also looking for tools to envision and potentially consider ways of mutualising the cost / benefit of common services across an ecosystem.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen

    looking for tools to envision and potentially consider ways of mutualising the cost / benefit of common services across an ecosystem.

    @nmeyne As of now, there is no software implementing Valueflows that is ready for use. The two projects that are closest to ready-for-use are https://bonfirenetworks.org/use-bonfire/ and https://github.com/holo-rea/holo-rea

    For envisioning, we have been creating diagrams with https://app.diagrams.net/ using a visual language for resource flow diagrams inspired by category theory string diagrams: https://write.as/economic-networks/visual-languages-resource-flow-diagrams and for text, have been using YAML. Examples at https://www.valueflo.ws/examples/ex-agent/

    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    @nmeyne would this idea fit with Co-op Credentials?
    valueflows/vf-apps-agents#2
    Nick Meyne
    @nmeyne
    @bhaugen Yes that's a great fit with the concept of 'portability' and 'selective disclosure' of credentials under the control of the human user (holder). The w3c spec on Verifiable Credentials expands that model by considering the role of issuers and verifiers of the credentials. https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/ We've done work on an open source 'plugin' for Discourse that allows this portability between platform instances. (Like Scout or Brownie badges issued by different troupes, but mutually recognised at the Jamboree :-) )
    Stefano Bocconi
    @sbocconi
    Hello, as for @bhaugen 's request I post here in case it is interesting a repository I use to test the generation of a Material Passport in the Reflow project, using Node-Red running locally and talking to an instance of Bonfire via GraphQL. You can run everything locally, but to actually load and read a data you also need an instance of Bonfire, such as what is provided by Reflow. The code (which is on a branch, not on master!) is at: https://github.com/WeMake-cc/reflow-nodered/tree/code
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    @sbocconi have you shared that repo with the Bonfire crew? If not, do you want to? If not, ok if I do?
    But thanks a lot for the link and info.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    I shared it with the Bonfire team, they had questions that I can't answer. Do you have any screenshots or maybe https://www.loom.com/ recordings showing how it works?
    5 replies
    Not particularly Loom, any kind of easy screen flow recording.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Or just screenshots.
    Stefano Bocconi
    @sbocconi
    I have added a screenshot of the Node-red tab and one of the code inside (not very indicative, but since I was at it), but I doubt this is what can answer Bonfire team's questions, maybe if I see them I can add more specific info in the Readme https://github.com/WeMake-cc/reflow-nodered/tree/code?
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Thanks a lot @sbocconi ! I'll pass it on.
    pukkamustard
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org
    [m]
    Hello! On the ValueFlows Wiki there are two example usages of VF (https://lab.allmende.io/valueflows/valueflows/-/wikis/Enspiral-Sample-Data and https://lab.allmende.io/valueflows/valueflows/-/wikis/CoLab-Sample-Data). Does the software that uses VF as in the examples exist or are these theoretical examples?
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    Hello @pukkamustard:matrix.org ! Those are quite old, we don't remember exactly. :/ We were and are very interested in "more or less real" use cases as input (like the flows are real or representative, the numbers and names not so much). The CoLab one we don't remember. There was a founding member of VF who worked at Enspiral at that time, so that probably came from them. But neither of those examples resulted in real VF-based software for those 2 groups, in fact VF wasn't even on its first release yet, it was early info-gathering days. If you are interested in the directions real software has gone, we can direct you to something that may suit your needs or your curiosities. And here are a lot of fake-but-detailed examples: https://www.valueflo.ws/examples/ex-agent/. And I suppose we should clean up our wiki, it has been mostly an ongoing place to stash stuff that doesn't fit in the formal doc or isn't ready.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Yeah, the Enspiral example came from Mikey Williams of Enspiral and I think he also gave us the Colab example. Enspiral had a working relationship with Colab, as you can see at https://colab.coop/blog/talking-collaboration-with-joshua/
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    But as Lynn said, those were examples to guide the vocabulary development. VF software did not exist. The vocabulary came out of https://github.com/open-app/core which was also started by Enspiral but quickly gathered a following including me and Lynn. OAE discussed independently developed apps, by different people, using different stacks, that could all work together, so the participants in the discussion decided they would need a common vocabulary so the apps could communicate as an ecosystem.
    pukkamustard
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org
    [m]
    Thanks @fosterlynn and @bhaugen! From following the links I learned about the term Network Resource Planning ... makes a lot of sense to me. The projects I've seen seem to all use a relational data model (via Django ORM or Ecto). Have their been efforts to use/implement ValueFlows from a more RDF side?
    7 replies
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Putting this VF + RDF project in the main stream: https://lab.allmende.io/solidbase/solidbase
    (Ended up in one of those annoying Gitter reply side panels, so invisible...)
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org that's the only VF+RDF implementation that I know of, so far, altho we are talking to other RDF fans who might want to collaborate on something new. If such an effort starts to come to life, are you interested in participating? If so, I will make sure you get into the loop.
    2 replies
    Lynn Foster
    @fosterlynn
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org if you get to the point where you want to explore how VF might map to one or both, and/or using it as rdf, just give a yell, we're always happy to do a call or whatever works best for you.
    Michiel de Jong
    @michielbdejong
    Great to hear what you're working on! I found you through Paul d'Aoust.
    I also tried to do mutual credit on top of Solid for a while, see for instance https://solidos.solidcommunity.net/Team/2021/money-pane-project/money%20pane/index.ttl#this and https://github.com/solid/money-pane (but now working on https://federatedbookkeeping.org in general, using a bit more PHP and a bit less RDF since the last few months
    Michiel de Jong
    @michielbdejong
    I mentioned SolidBase, ValueFlo.ws and Mikorzal in the deprecation notice of Solid OS MoneyPane, here: solid/money-pane@86e41ea
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    Welcome @michielbdejong - I took a quick peak at your federated bookkeeping stuff. Glad you popped in here, and I also just jointed your fedbooks gitter channel. Are you familiar with REA? https://www.valueflo.ws/appendix/rea/
    and the work that Wim Laurier and others on REA-based collaboration spaces?
    Michiel de Jong
    @michielbdejong
    Michiel de Jong
    @michielbdejong
    I recently (last few weeks) did a related experiment to remove the organisation-centricity from bookkeeping, and take a bird's eye view of the value flows, I labeled it https://prejournal.org - I should try to use the REA model there!
    And we just (yesterday) got some funding (50,000 euros) for Federated Timesheets https://gitter.im/federatedbookkeeping/timesheets - we could use a percentage of that for expressing timesheets in the ValueFlo.ws ontology.
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    We would be happy to help.
    And https://disco.coop/ might be interested in your time sheets.
    pukkamustard
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org
    [m]
    I just stumbled upon feraltrade.org and it seems like a wonderful example of ValueFlows'y thinking...do you know about the project?
    Bob Haugen
    @bhaugen
    @pukkamustard:matrix.org never heard of feraltrade.org (but I don't get out much). Fascinating, though! Thanks for the tip.